The Hoard Potato: the Boy Wonder and the Last Pulp Hero

[athelind]

As some of you may recall, I have a Blogger account, reserved, in theory, to be my soapbox for ranting about pop culture in general and comic books in particular. I originally established it with the intent of participating more fully in the "comics blogosphere".* Unfortunately, it had the opposite effect. Due to the inconvenience of the interface

Comments

[paka]

I did not know about the Blogger account. I was wondering about suggesting a topic then. Something which I've thought in the past was that Thor was basically Jack Kirby's baby - far more than it ever was Lee's - because it was pretty much a predecessor to New Gods, with Space Vikings in aluminum foil. Am I totally off, here?

[athelind]

Whoever actually threw the Thor ball, it was Jack who took it and ran with it.

It's always seemed to me that the Fourth World was Jack, given free reign to do the things he'd WANTED to do in Thor, but didn't feel like he had the freedom (or that was getting paid enough to provide his Coolest Ideas).

While the Fourth World remains my favorite moment in comics history, honestly, it's been the target of so much scrutiny that I don't really have anything left to say after this.

[cpxbrex]

I'm not sure I agree that Robin made Batman who he is, today, but I do think that Robin allowed Batman, as a character, the opportunity to survive long enough to develop the iconic status that he has, today

[trpeal]

You might know more than me about the history of the character, but I was under the impression that back in 1940 that the introduction of Robin saved Batman.

I have not done the research myself, but in Michael Chabon's novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay, which deals extensively with the early days of comic books, it's more or less stated that the introduction of Robin improved the sales of Batman comics, and to such a degree that it drove nearly every other super hero to acquire a youthful sidekick. Captain America got one. I thought the Sub-Mariner got one (though I can't find direct evidence of it, so maybe not). The freaking Human Torch got one! And he was an android!

[cpxbrex]

That's actually one of the points I wanted to make but didn't do right. Yeah. It was a wildly popular construct.

I think that a lot of people kind of want their comics to grow up with them, y'know? They want to read the adventures of Batman as an adult, not as a teenage boy, and forget the literature is essentially juvenile (I mean that in the sense of for young people, I should add, not inferior).

And in modern DC comics, they are generally making quite a to do about legacy heroes, like in the JSA, and a lot of that flows from the existence of Robin - the idea that the "mantle" of that hero-dom can survive the "original" hero. It also is part of the process through which comic characters have at least partially acknowledged time, an heir means that, y'know, some day you're not gonna be the guy doing this. That time passes. Robin is the first introduction of the concept of time into comic books, AFAIK and in an admittedly roundabout way.

[athelind]

As I recall, Feiffer's gripe was based on his reaction AS a kid: he could, conceivably, dedicate himself, push himself, and grow up to become Batman.

But he couldn't be Robin, because he wasn't ALREADY Robin.

Sales indicate that Feiffer was not in the majority there. =)

I should drag part of this thread over to legacy2020, so we can converse freely about who Batman and Robin really HAVE been over the years.

[stalbon]

I'd definitely be interested in seeing more comics entries posted here, as I'm a big fan. Mind you, I'm more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, but that's more because Marvel focuses on their heroes as characters than heroes half the time, in my opinion. But yes, more comics is good!