Manly Man in TV-Land
In the last few days an interesting discussion started on the depiction of masculinity and feminism on Supernatural, especially in comparison to Buffy (look here ).
As I can never contain myself, I had to write up my own meta about it.
As much as I love my shiny new show, I won`t lie about its shortcomings either. Paging the writing here. *cough*
But I honestly never got the feeling that SPN tried to drive a stake through feminism, pardon the pun. :) Or to un-built all the efforts Buffy might have made in bringing female empowerment to our TV screens.
First off I loved Buffy. Once upon a time it was my biggest obsession. But I`m not sure Buffy and SPN are all that similar, apart from the overall genre.
Buffy was a story that played on the Chosen One mythos, with Buffy the central hero and her friends as her sidekicks. It was always an ensemble cast show. Now SPN is a two-lead show and much more suited to the buddy-theme narrative. In fact the closest thing that comes to mind is the X-Files here. Hell, the boys often flip-flop in the Mulder and Scully-roles of Believer and Skeptic.
And of course having a female lead and female supporting characters will make for a different show than one with two male leads. That`s just a given.
I was never one to believe in this "Men are from mars, women are from venus"- bs as I honestly think we are more alike than different. There are some qualities traditionally seen as more feminine and some as more masculine but in reality it seldom is that clear-cut. Men can be just as nurturing and emotional as women can be curt and stoic.
TV-land maybe a bit behind sometimes but even there typical gender role clichés have been challenged.
Female victims
Considering the differences of the shows I find it a bit unfair to compare the one-episode victims on one to the recurring characters on the other.
Of course comparing the "chick of the week" on SPN and Buffy, the central heroine of her own show, the former is going to come up short. Yet if you compare it with the typical "vamp fodder" of Buffy you won`t find much difference. In fact the token "victim" will be lucky if she even has a line apart from screaming and much flinging of hands.
I also knew going in that since our leads are male we`d get a lot of hot chicks for them to rescue. Come on, that`s how TV works.
But I was pleasantly surprised to find a bunch of them capable in the face of danger. Not in an over-the-top kick ass way but they were as brave and smart as one could expect from a regular person. Hailey in Wendigo? Andrea in DitW? Well-adjusted Flight Attendant Amanda? Kat in Asylum? Kathleen in the Benders? Sarah in Provenance?
I thought they handled themselves very well given the circumstances. And the truth is, most people would throw a shoe and run away screaming upon seeing a ghost, be they male or female.
We had our token male victims as well. The boy in Asylum? Was definitely more of a wimp than his girlfriend. The man in Benders? Totally out of his depth. And understandably so. That`s the point of the Winchesters. They were raised to face this stuff. Of course they are gonna come off being damn heroes compared to other people.
The only girl that really grated on my was Lori from Hookman who I felt was ultra-victimized to ping Sam`s equally overly sensitive "vulnerable girl in danger" radar.
Because again, nuance isn`t the greatest strenght of the show. In writing, not acting I might add.
Macho Macho Man
At first glance you would point a finger and scream Dean. Yet one of his first lines in the Pilot is "I don`t want to" (do it alone). The hell? Han Solo would have rather shot Chewie than admit to something like this.
And over the course of the Season it becomes clearer and clearer how Dean is the most emotional vulnerable of the brothers/family. Not to mention the peacekeeping, nurturing entity in the family. I mean could his devotion to the family unit be any clearer?
That`s so not the behavior of a true "manly" man. Yet it doesn`t detract from his masculinity at all. In fact I`d say if there is one thing Dean is confident about himself, it is in his masculinity.
Him driving the muscle car and listening to Mullet rock is more anachronism than anything else. Lots of people are into oldies and antiques. It`s a preference, very much unrelated to gender.
And yes Dean likes to flirt and enjoys women. But why shouldn`t he? He never struck me as lookind down on women. He thinks about having a good time with them. And they are free and most welcome to view him the same way.
He also never gets mean or violent when his flirting is shot down, as the Andrea thing in DitW proved. If you take his flirting in the spirit it is intended all is well.
And honestly if a woman feels threatened and victimized by a guy checking her out or flirting with her it`s a sign about HER being insecure in her femininity.
I don`t think either Dean or Sam would ever feel threatened by a strong woman, Cassie (ahem arguably was one or was supposed to be one) and Sarah are a testament to the opposite.
So why would a strong, secure woman be threatened by them? Does a virile male threaten the empowerement of women? Why? I don`t see that at all.
Absence of female heroes on SPN
First let me say one thing: Hallelujah. And may they stay gone forever. I do not want a feisty, sexy, kick-ass hunter chick.
I have nothing against meeting more hunters, male or female. Or strong or semi-recurring guest characters, be they villains or good guys, but this show lives off the brother-dynamic. Leave that alone.
I don`t mind male only leads. Yes, I`m a female but I definitely don`t need or want a token female character to represent my gender or something. That`s like filling a quota.
I relate to the guys as people. I can sympathize with them. They got dealt a pretty crappy hand by fate. Yet they didn`t take it lying down and fought against it. Trying to keep others from suffering the same fate. And they don`t whine about it 24/7.
Frankly that`s more then I can say for a lot of TV-"heroes." Take Charmed for example, a show with all female leads, and in the end I wanted a demon to kick their asses six ways to sunday. Why? Because they were horrible, self-centered whiners. And a disgrace to their gender. Except Piper, even though she had the martyr routine down pat.
But I couldn`t sympathize with them at all. Let alone call them heroes.
And Buffy? Buffy and Willow showed such negative growth as the show went on, I honestly was hard-pressed sometimes to care about them.
As far as the male characters of that show? Giles became a Pod-Person in Season 7, Xander was so often just the butt-monkey of the jokes, it was painful. Spike? The ***-raping that character underwent deserved its own book.
Angel? Escaped into his own spin-off show. So we have maybe one survivor here.
Buffy - shout out
I also loved the little shout-out to Buffy in Hell House. And I honestly didn`t feel the geeks there were treated any more or less demeaning than on Buffy. In fact Buffy once made it clear that in her universe the same rules apply as anywhere else. Going to Prom with 3 feet tall Jonathan? Not gonna happen. Girls are going for the Angels and Spikes or the Dean`s and Sam`s of this world. In TV, beautiful people gravitate to equally beautiful people. That`s LAW or something. :-)
And it would be the same in SPN. If Buffy could choose to go on a date with Dean or Sam and one of the hellhounds, come on people, honestly, who would she go with? We are instantly down to Dean and Sam. And with Buffy, I`d go for Dean first.
And five years ago it would have been the typical Star Trek reference to show their geekiness. It`s a cliché. And every show does it. And every show in some way insults their fanbase with it because a lot of them are geeks. And the writers of these shows and these episodes are geeks too. It`s the ultimate in-joke and most people have a golly old laugh about it.
In essence I don`t feel it was a meta-statement on Buffy as the lesser show or something.
Weapons - Phallic and Otherwise
As far as phallic weapons Buffy clearly would have the edge with the continuing use of stakes.
The boys definitely use more firearms which Buffy resented. And most of her opponents were nice enough to engage in hand-to-hand or medieval style combat. BUT with the things the boys face, weapons are a necessity IMO. I really don`t see that as an expression of their masculinity. Except the little moment of "who`s got the bigger machete" in DMB which clearly had phallic undertones. ;)
They don`t have superpowers so they need to rely on weapons and yes, often guns with rocksalt. How else are they gonna do it? Throw the salt at the ghosts? They also use spells, incantations, herbs, amulets and intensive research.
With the Scooby Gang these tasks were often split. Giles did the book-work, Willow did the spells. Buffy finally did the muscle work.
The guys only have themselves, so naturally they have to do it all. And they had to train hard for their skills. All their lifes in fact. But this doesn`t in any way, shape or form make them macho man.
If the Winchesters had been two sisters, they would have to do the same things.
In fact while yes, the show would be different if the Winchesters were female, in a lot of ways it would be...not. :)
Two very interesting metas:
on the subject of Masculinity vs. Machismo by sasha_davidovna and
Role Models by lerefuge
As I can never contain myself, I had to write up my own meta about it.
As much as I love my shiny new show, I won`t lie about its shortcomings either. Paging the writing here. *cough*
But I honestly never got the feeling that SPN tried to drive a stake through feminism, pardon the pun. :) Or to un-built all the efforts Buffy might have made in bringing female empowerment to our TV screens.
First off I loved Buffy. Once upon a time it was my biggest obsession. But I`m not sure Buffy and SPN are all that similar, apart from the overall genre.
Buffy was a story that played on the Chosen One mythos, with Buffy the central hero and her friends as her sidekicks. It was always an ensemble cast show. Now SPN is a two-lead show and much more suited to the buddy-theme narrative. In fact the closest thing that comes to mind is the X-Files here. Hell, the boys often flip-flop in the Mulder and Scully-roles of Believer and Skeptic.
And of course having a female lead and female supporting characters will make for a different show than one with two male leads. That`s just a given.
I was never one to believe in this "Men are from mars, women are from venus"- bs as I honestly think we are more alike than different. There are some qualities traditionally seen as more feminine and some as more masculine but in reality it seldom is that clear-cut. Men can be just as nurturing and emotional as women can be curt and stoic.
TV-land maybe a bit behind sometimes but even there typical gender role clichés have been challenged.
Female victims
Considering the differences of the shows I find it a bit unfair to compare the one-episode victims on one to the recurring characters on the other.
Of course comparing the "chick of the week" on SPN and Buffy, the central heroine of her own show, the former is going to come up short. Yet if you compare it with the typical "vamp fodder" of Buffy you won`t find much difference. In fact the token "victim" will be lucky if she even has a line apart from screaming and much flinging of hands.
I also knew going in that since our leads are male we`d get a lot of hot chicks for them to rescue. Come on, that`s how TV works.
But I was pleasantly surprised to find a bunch of them capable in the face of danger. Not in an over-the-top kick ass way but they were as brave and smart as one could expect from a regular person. Hailey in Wendigo? Andrea in DitW? Well-adjusted Flight Attendant Amanda? Kat in Asylum? Kathleen in the Benders? Sarah in Provenance?
I thought they handled themselves very well given the circumstances. And the truth is, most people would throw a shoe and run away screaming upon seeing a ghost, be they male or female.
We had our token male victims as well. The boy in Asylum? Was definitely more of a wimp than his girlfriend. The man in Benders? Totally out of his depth. And understandably so. That`s the point of the Winchesters. They were raised to face this stuff. Of course they are gonna come off being damn heroes compared to other people.
The only girl that really grated on my was Lori from Hookman who I felt was ultra-victimized to ping Sam`s equally overly sensitive "vulnerable girl in danger" radar.
Because again, nuance isn`t the greatest strenght of the show. In writing, not acting I might add.
Macho Macho Man
At first glance you would point a finger and scream Dean. Yet one of his first lines in the Pilot is "I don`t want to" (do it alone). The hell? Han Solo would have rather shot Chewie than admit to something like this.
And over the course of the Season it becomes clearer and clearer how Dean is the most emotional vulnerable of the brothers/family. Not to mention the peacekeeping, nurturing entity in the family. I mean could his devotion to the family unit be any clearer?
That`s so not the behavior of a true "manly" man. Yet it doesn`t detract from his masculinity at all. In fact I`d say if there is one thing Dean is confident about himself, it is in his masculinity.
Him driving the muscle car and listening to Mullet rock is more anachronism than anything else. Lots of people are into oldies and antiques. It`s a preference, very much unrelated to gender.
And yes Dean likes to flirt and enjoys women. But why shouldn`t he? He never struck me as lookind down on women. He thinks about having a good time with them. And they are free and most welcome to view him the same way.
He also never gets mean or violent when his flirting is shot down, as the Andrea thing in DitW proved. If you take his flirting in the spirit it is intended all is well.
And honestly if a woman feels threatened and victimized by a guy checking her out or flirting with her it`s a sign about HER being insecure in her femininity.
I don`t think either Dean or Sam would ever feel threatened by a strong woman, Cassie (ahem arguably was one or was supposed to be one) and Sarah are a testament to the opposite.
So why would a strong, secure woman be threatened by them? Does a virile male threaten the empowerement of women? Why? I don`t see that at all.
Absence of female heroes on SPN
First let me say one thing: Hallelujah. And may they stay gone forever. I do not want a feisty, sexy, kick-ass hunter chick.
I have nothing against meeting more hunters, male or female. Or strong or semi-recurring guest characters, be they villains or good guys, but this show lives off the brother-dynamic. Leave that alone.
I don`t mind male only leads. Yes, I`m a female but I definitely don`t need or want a token female character to represent my gender or something. That`s like filling a quota.
I relate to the guys as people. I can sympathize with them. They got dealt a pretty crappy hand by fate. Yet they didn`t take it lying down and fought against it. Trying to keep others from suffering the same fate. And they don`t whine about it 24/7.
Frankly that`s more then I can say for a lot of TV-"heroes." Take Charmed for example, a show with all female leads, and in the end I wanted a demon to kick their asses six ways to sunday. Why? Because they were horrible, self-centered whiners. And a disgrace to their gender. Except Piper, even though she had the martyr routine down pat.
But I couldn`t sympathize with them at all. Let alone call them heroes.
And Buffy? Buffy and Willow showed such negative growth as the show went on, I honestly was hard-pressed sometimes to care about them.
As far as the male characters of that show? Giles became a Pod-Person in Season 7, Xander was so often just the butt-monkey of the jokes, it was painful. Spike? The ***-raping that character underwent deserved its own book.
Angel? Escaped into his own spin-off show. So we have maybe one survivor here.
Buffy - shout out
I also loved the little shout-out to Buffy in Hell House. And I honestly didn`t feel the geeks there were treated any more or less demeaning than on Buffy. In fact Buffy once made it clear that in her universe the same rules apply as anywhere else. Going to Prom with 3 feet tall Jonathan? Not gonna happen. Girls are going for the Angels and Spikes or the Dean`s and Sam`s of this world. In TV, beautiful people gravitate to equally beautiful people. That`s LAW or something. :-)
And it would be the same in SPN. If Buffy could choose to go on a date with Dean or Sam and one of the hellhounds, come on people, honestly, who would she go with? We are instantly down to Dean and Sam. And with Buffy, I`d go for Dean first.
And five years ago it would have been the typical Star Trek reference to show their geekiness. It`s a cliché. And every show does it. And every show in some way insults their fanbase with it because a lot of them are geeks. And the writers of these shows and these episodes are geeks too. It`s the ultimate in-joke and most people have a golly old laugh about it.
In essence I don`t feel it was a meta-statement on Buffy as the lesser show or something.
Weapons - Phallic and Otherwise
As far as phallic weapons Buffy clearly would have the edge with the continuing use of stakes.
The boys definitely use more firearms which Buffy resented. And most of her opponents were nice enough to engage in hand-to-hand or medieval style combat. BUT with the things the boys face, weapons are a necessity IMO. I really don`t see that as an expression of their masculinity. Except the little moment of "who`s got the bigger machete" in DMB which clearly had phallic undertones. ;)
They don`t have superpowers so they need to rely on weapons and yes, often guns with rocksalt. How else are they gonna do it? Throw the salt at the ghosts? They also use spells, incantations, herbs, amulets and intensive research.
With the Scooby Gang these tasks were often split. Giles did the book-work, Willow did the spells. Buffy finally did the muscle work.
The guys only have themselves, so naturally they have to do it all. And they had to train hard for their skills. All their lifes in fact. But this doesn`t in any way, shape or form make them macho man.
If the Winchesters had been two sisters, they would have to do the same things.
In fact while yes, the show would be different if the Winchesters were female, in a lot of ways it would be...not. :)
Two very interesting metas:
on the subject of Masculinity vs. Machismo by sasha_davidovna and
Role Models by lerefuge