The problem I had with the most obvious ~normal life~ parallel is that it just does not fit the current situation. What are we paralleling with that exactly? Sam left Amelia of his own volition last season, once before Dean even showed up again, and again when Dean pretty much let him go mid-season. Dean's current actions have nothing to do with forcing Sam to give up some normal life that we've seen he doesn't actually seem to want anymore (or at least has given up of his own free will as recently as last season).
The end was obviously setting up darkside Dean via the Mark. It was eye-rollingly deliberate, especially with Sam's reaction to it. I'm 100% positive (you can hold me to this prediction later! :D)
The moral I got from this episode is that Ginger Beard = Lying Bastard.
ETA: I do this is supposed to serve as a cautionary tale, a sort of "How the Winchesters do NOT want to end up", if you will.
The problem I had with the most obvious ~normal life~ parallel is that it just does not fit the current situation.
I got the feeling that the "normal life" was an attempt at saying (rather loudly) that Harry is representing Sam rather than representing S8 Sam (or the Sam that wanted a normal life). I think the parallels were directly related to what's going on with them now. They couldn't show the exact situation - just the "couldn't lose you so I had to trick you" parallel. I don't think the "normal" played into it much at all.
The moral I got from this episode is that Ginger Beard = Lying Bastard.
Yeah, and as much as I hate to say it out loud, I think that's what we were meant to be left thinking about Dean. It doesn't entirely work because we don't want to think that Ed and Dean could be in any way the same, but I pretty much think that's what the ep was trying to do. Though we have a much better understanding of why Dean did what he did so there'd be a lot more sympathy for Dean (compared to Ed
( ... )
I was relieved that things seemed to actually progress and the tension between them was more understandable (still sad but with a WHOLE episode devoted to the current situation between them, I'm pretty satisfied).
I felt the same exact way. And ditto to all you said about Sam no longer seeming angry. I liked the little light moment between them when Dean reminisced about them being kids in their superhero costumes, and Dean taking him to the ER on his bike.
And oh goodness, yes... I was so happy that Sam didn't walk away from Dean despite Harry walking away from Ed. And you could see both of them were pained when Harry mentioned the whole "growing old" thing.
Despite all the heavy-handedness (though like you said, I think Show did need to hit people over the head with it given all the infighting taking place in fandom), I enjoyed this one too. I've always enjoyed the Ghostfacers.
I liked the little light moment between them when Dean reminisced about them being kids in their superhero costumes, and Dean taking him to the ER on his bike
It was such a lovely moment to show that Sam as good memories and is willing to share them with Dean (can I just say I was TERRIFIED that they were going to make Sam ignore Dean and give fandom even more reasons to hate him).
How they felt for both Ghostfacers more and more and so developed more.. idk.. compassion for each other in the process. Not on the surface, but inside.
Yes. I think much of this episode was also about them seeing their own situation mirrored and maybe getting a better understanding of things. It might not be until the next couple of episodes that we see how much they have learned - but I felt it was a step in the right direction at least. :)
I personally don't quite understand why everyone says often that we get so little of Sam's point of view. We get his looks, moments, and his general attitude that shows how he feels. His silence often speaks quite loudly to me.It's true that Sam has little moments to let us know what's happening. I think it's more that we don't always get the camera stay on Sam long enough to make it really clear what's going on in his head (especially in the last few episodes). Like following Dean into his room so we could see how hardened he was becoming but we are left to guess what might be going on in
( ... )
I was content with just filling Sam's not-explained emotions with my own interpretation/feelings because I can relate so much with an older sibling "stealing the show" all the time.
Indeed! I know what you mean. Unfortunately though Sam's ambiguity has meant for a lot of hate (and seriously, I still can't believe the stuff I come across. Even in that episode Sam has been referred to as an asshole because he can't just forgive Dean for "saving his life". It makes me weep. Frustration over the storyline I get, but refusing to see Sam's side of it all makes me sad. I have mentioned I'm a touch over invested in this show yes? ;D) Personally, I have no problems whatsoever seeing Sam's side of the story. But even after an episode as blatant as this fans are still struggling to get where Sam is coming from - so yeah, I think the lack of pov has effected the way people feel about him. And I think this has been deliberately done by Carver. He needs the drama. :/
I do miss the early days sometimes where the story frame was kind
( ... )
I love your idea about some introspection being the trigger for Dean going dark side.
It would be interesting I think. It depends how much his guilt will play a part - Dean could get lost in guilt if he's not careful and it might prevent him from actually going deeper and understanding the real issues. But we'll see.
with an interesting mural
I squeeed when I saw the mural (and I actually think it's one we've seen before). :))
Comments 58
Ugh, show.
The problem I had with the most obvious ~normal life~ parallel is that it just does not fit the current situation. What are we paralleling with that exactly? Sam left Amelia of his own volition last season, once before Dean even showed up again, and again when Dean pretty much let him go mid-season. Dean's current actions have nothing to do with forcing Sam to give up some normal life that we've seen he doesn't actually seem to want anymore (or at least has given up of his own free will as recently as last season).
The end was obviously setting up darkside Dean via the Mark. It was eye-rollingly deliberate, especially with Sam's reaction to it. I'm 100% positive (you can hold me to this prediction later! :D)
The moral I got from this episode is that Ginger Beard = Lying Bastard.
ETA: I do this is supposed to serve as a cautionary tale, a sort of "How the Winchesters do NOT want to end up", if you will.
Reply
I got the feeling that the "normal life" was an attempt at saying (rather loudly) that Harry is representing Sam rather than representing S8 Sam (or the Sam that wanted a normal life). I think the parallels were directly related to what's going on with them now. They couldn't show the exact situation - just the "couldn't lose you so I had to trick you" parallel. I don't think the "normal" played into it much at all.
The moral I got from this episode is that Ginger Beard = Lying Bastard.
Yeah, and as much as I hate to say it out loud, I think that's what we were meant to be left thinking about Dean. It doesn't entirely work because we don't want to think that Ed and Dean could be in any way the same, but I pretty much think that's what the ep was trying to do. Though we have a much better understanding of why Dean did what he did so there'd be a lot more sympathy for Dean (compared to Ed ( ... )
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I felt the same exact way. And ditto to all you said about Sam no longer seeming angry. I liked the little light moment between them when Dean reminisced about them being kids in their superhero costumes, and Dean taking him to the ER on his bike.
And oh goodness, yes... I was so happy that Sam didn't walk away from Dean despite Harry walking away from Ed. And you could see both of them were pained when Harry mentioned the whole "growing old" thing.
Despite all the heavy-handedness (though like you said, I think Show did need to hit people over the head with it given all the infighting taking place in fandom), I enjoyed this one too. I've always enjoyed the Ghostfacers.
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It was such a lovely moment to show that Sam as good memories and is willing to share them with Dean (can I just say I was TERRIFIED that they were going to make Sam ignore Dean and give fandom even more reasons to hate him).
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(The comment has been removed)
Yes. I think much of this episode was also about them seeing their own situation mirrored and maybe getting a better understanding of things. It might not be until the next couple of episodes that we see how much they have learned - but I felt it was a step in the right direction at least. :)
I personally don't quite understand why everyone says often that we get so little of Sam's point of view. We get his looks, moments, and his general attitude that shows how he feels. His silence often speaks quite loudly to me.It's true that Sam has little moments to let us know what's happening. I think it's more that we don't always get the camera stay on Sam long enough to make it really clear what's going on in his head (especially in the last few episodes). Like following Dean into his room so we could see how hardened he was becoming but we are left to guess what might be going on in ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Indeed! I know what you mean. Unfortunately though Sam's ambiguity has meant for a lot of hate (and seriously, I still can't believe the stuff I come across. Even in that episode Sam has been referred to as an asshole because he can't just forgive Dean for "saving his life". It makes me weep. Frustration over the storyline I get, but refusing to see Sam's side of it all makes me sad. I have mentioned I'm a touch over invested in this show yes? ;D) Personally, I have no problems whatsoever seeing Sam's side of the story. But even after an episode as blatant as this fans are still struggling to get where Sam is coming from - so yeah, I think the lack of pov has effected the way people feel about him. And I think this has been deliberately done by Carver. He needs the drama. :/
I do miss the early days sometimes where the story frame was kind ( ... )
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(The comment has been removed)
It would be interesting I think. It depends how much his guilt will play a part - Dean could get lost in guilt if he's not careful and it might prevent him from actually going deeper and understanding the real issues. But we'll see.
with an interesting mural
I squeeed when I saw the mural (and I actually think it's one we've seen before). :))
Reply
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