(Untitled)

[aroraborealis]

I've been meaning to read Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divice since I first heard about it a couple of years ago, but, like so many books, it remained on the library bookshelf until I had a compelling reason to seek it out, in this case, my negotiation class. I'm only about 50 pages into it, but I already want everyone I know to read

Comments

[veek]

Hey, BU has it! A copy in the law library, and one in the management library -- sounds about right. I'll check it out. :)

[fanw]

Hmm, I'm curious, what's its main thesis? I have a big stack of books to read. Why should this one rank up there with Brothers Karamazov and the Post-American World? (Genuine curiosity here!)

[kcatalyst]

It totally kicks Karamazov butt.

Main thesis is that women don't ask. :-)
(Related theses:
- you don't ask, you don't get
- women don't get
- women are penalized socially and economically for asking
- women should ask
- men and women should encourage and support women for asking
- there are different ways of asking which intersect with gender
- which way makes sense depends on the frame the other party brings to the table)

[fanw]

Huh! Interesting. I will assume this is well-written since it is highly recommended, and it sounds promising that it looks at societal issues and not just individual ones.

I suppose I just have a knee-jerk response to anything that says "women think/act/do this" when I so very frequently do not do anything of the sort. This isn't just me self-describing, this is various friends, lovers, family, etc commenting.

But this book may be interesting. I was surprised a couple years ago when I asked for a month off to go to Guatemala and I got it! I thought about just what I liked, asked for it, and sure enough, it happened! Was kind of a revelation for me, but I never considered it a gender thing before. Maybe it is.

[dbang]

Me too. It is a very very common experience of mine to read "women do this" (or "X-I'm-a-member-of does this") and go...um, not me. I'm kind of a freak.

But...i still operate within a society where that response is expected. And even if *I* don't do the expected, I have to learn to cope with being the outlier. So it's helpful to get insightful analysis on the dominant dialogue, so at least I know what to expect when I break the rules.

[kcatalyst]

Hear hear! And I'd like to underline the "everyone you know" aspect. This is not a book only women should read!

[jacflash]

Sounds useful. Thank you. *adds it to the to-read list*

[beah]

I just read a few pages here and there on amazon.com, but nothing I saw was prescriptive. Do you think the book offers useful strategies for negotiating more/more effectively? Any that surprised you?

[dpolicar]

I remember reading a followup to this book some time back that pretty much said "Right... women don't ask. But when they _do_ ask, they aren't treated the way men are when _they_ ask, precisely because the expectation is that women don't ask. DIY(do, don't).

[kcatalyst]

Which is exactly why men also should read this book, because they talk about how men can work to counter the cultural dynamics that do that.

[dpolicar]

(nods) agreed.
though I should probably read a different book, too, as I find I'm uncomfortable with both men and women who ask.

[aroraborealis]

Do you think you're uncomfortable in the same way, and to the same degree?

One of the interesting bits I just read discussed how people who think they're perceiving men and women equally still rate them differently in negotiation type exercises. The authors note that young people think that the findings discussed in the book won't apply to their generation due to social progress, but that turns out not to be true. So you might find it interesting to apply those findings to your own experience (as I am!)