(Untitled)

[aroraborealis]

I've been meaning to read Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divice since I first heard about it a couple of years ago, but, like so many books, it remained on the library bookshelf until I had a compelling reason to seek it out, in this case, my negotiation class. I'm only about 50 pages into it, but I already want everyone I know to read

Comments

[fanw]

Hmm, I'm curious, what's its main thesis? I have a big stack of books to read. Why should this one rank up there with Brothers Karamazov and the Post-American World? (Genuine curiosity here!)

[kcatalyst]

It totally kicks Karamazov butt.

Main thesis is that women don't ask. :-)
(Related theses:
- you don't ask, you don't get
- women don't get
- women are penalized socially and economically for asking
- women should ask
- men and women should encourage and support women for asking
- there are different ways of asking which intersect with gender
- which way makes sense depends on the frame the other party brings to the table)

[fanw]

Huh! Interesting. I will assume this is well-written since it is highly recommended, and it sounds promising that it looks at societal issues and not just individual ones.

I suppose I just have a knee-jerk response to anything that says "women think/act/do this" when I so very frequently do not do anything of the sort. This isn't just me self-describing, this is various friends, lovers, family, etc commenting.

But this book may be interesting. I was surprised a couple years ago when I asked for a month off to go to Guatemala and I got it! I thought about just what I liked, asked for it, and sure enough, it happened! Was kind of a revelation for me, but I never considered it a gender thing before. Maybe it is.

[dbang]

Me too. It is a very very common experience of mine to read "women do this" (or "X-I'm-a-member-of does this") and go...um, not me. I'm kind of a freak.

But...i still operate within a society where that response is expected. And even if *I* don't do the expected, I have to learn to cope with being the outlier. So it's helpful to get insightful analysis on the dominant dialogue, so at least I know what to expect when I break the rules.

[maebeth]

It would be easier for me to read this book if it was titled:
Some people don't negotiate, and a higher than expected percent of the non-negotiators are women.
Or even Most people treat women negotiators different than men negotiators.

I realize it won't sell that way.
But I can't figure out how the feminism (the radical notion that women are people) has lead us down a path where everything is described as women are this way, and men are that way.

And I hate it enough to not want to read it.

[aroraborealis]

What kcatalyst said. Basically, it's an exploration of the ways that women limit themselves by not asking for things they want or deserve, especially in professional contexts, but I see a direct application of all of the points in other aspects of my life, too. Basically, I think if I can internalize even a little of this book's message, I expect it to change my life.

[kcatalyst]

Sorry to be totally hijacking your post, but the other thing I adore about this book is that it's the only even vaguely self-helpy book I've ever read or heard of that not only talks about how to change things you do to improve things in your life, but also focuses on the societal structures that make it hard! So that's not just another book about how women communicate all wrong and should do it different, or about how women communicate all right but men communicate all wrong so women should do it differently.

Which you knew, because, you know, you're reading the book. But I had to share with everyone else. I am waving my hands and jumping up and down to emphasize how right you are that people should read this. *wave* *wave* *jump* *jump*

[aroraborealis]

Please, hijack away! I'm only partway through the book and I'm right there with you with the waving and jumping.

[vito_excalibur]

Yeah, that was the bit that convinced me when you were telling me about it. (er...not that I've read it yet...but it's on the list.)