this is a plea for you to never, ever link to ontd_feminism

[apiphile]

The Watson Test. My mate Al has something good (and funny) to say about people who act like the Bechdel test is the only valid tool of filmic criticism out there. I'd add to his description that the people who mention it ad infinitum are usually a) people who have just found out about it and b) people who do not have the critical faculties to make

Comments

[apocalypsos]

Mill: there is a big difference between Female Characters, subtype Strong, and Strong Characters, subtype Female
Mill: Hollywood produces the former
Mill: almost no one produces the latter

This made me feel so much FUCK YEAH, I seriously need to print this out and put it on the back of my computer desk and stare at it ALL DAY LONG.

[apiphile]

Something to bear in mind when you're writing, isn't it? "Almost no one has given us a hairy-legged hetero woman who likes kittens and saves the world, and does not See The Error Of Her Ways with regard to the state of her shins".

[apocalypsos]

"Almost no one has given us a hairy-legged hetero woman who likes kittens and saves the world, and does not See The Error Of Her Ways with regard to the state of her shins".

... damn it, now I kinda want to write something along those lines.

[apiphile]

Bonus points if she saves the world while wearing a cardigan and repeatedly going "ugh, what? leave me alone. no I am not going to wear those silly leather trousers."

[apiphile]

It's not even a form of analysis, as such. It's a tick-box, a y/n state - did they do this or didn't they? Well they did! So now we can call this a feminist movie. Except you can't, because the whole thing was full of Fridged girlfriends and twisted ankles and blonde girls with lisps who say "mommy" and it treated women like MEAT, but someone's heard of Bechdel-Wallace so there was a scene where two women talked about beauty treatments before they were hideously raped as motivation for the hero's revenge and THUS IT IS OKAY.

Which is one of the reasons it's dumb to rely on one single thing instead of using your own brain.

[apiphile]

Yeah, I've always found that very suspect. That some part of being enlightened about sexuality meant "having sex with as many people as possible", and while that's grand if you want to, what if "knowing what you want" includes knowing that what you want is NO SEX?

[apiphile]

There's an excellent post about that here.

[a_carnal_mink]

Oh, fuck me, the fucking Bechdel Test. I... want it to sound even more like a cheese sauce than it already does, AND I hate it.

When I first happened upon the term (and for several months thereafter, 'cos I was lazy and didn't look it up for myself for a little while), I thought it must've been referencing some serious academic feminist study or whathaveyou. But no, it's from a cartoon. Riiiight. And this causes self-righteous folk all over the place to invoke it leftrightandcentre why, exactly

[apiphile]

But no, it's from a cartoon.

It's a throw-away jab about the lack of interesting female roles in Hollywood which was made several years ago, and people treat it like a tickybox must-have dictator of what they can buy movie tickets to. I am very glad I don't adhere, because I'd never have seen Inception.

Two detectives (who happen to be female) discussing the suspect (who happens to be male)? Cheese-sauce fail.

That's pretty close to the example I used when I was talking to my sister (about writing, so I guess we pass the Cheese Sauce test); a team of female law-enforcement officers tracking down a male serial killer - does that pass the Bechdel test without you including a pointless, non-story scene where someone talks about coffee instead of catching the killer?

And I'm kinda giddy with how much I loved it. :D

BUT IT DIDN'T PASS THE BECHDEL TEST BABARELLA. IT DIDN'T PASS. THERE WERE NO LADYCONVOS. On the other hand, the most BAD-ASS GAY COP EVER.

[apocalypsos]

Okay, seriously, this entire post is making me want to write a throwaway line in a story where the previously-mentioned unshaven cardigan-wearing asexual heroine glares at the stereotypical heroine who asks her about shopping or something and sneers, "Yeah, I'm not helping you pass the Bechdel Test," before walking deliberately out of the scene.

[apiphile]

*loud laughter*

PLEASE. Please do this.

[moral_vacuum]

I'm male and so my opinion is probably irrelevant in this matter.
But with that caveat, I just want to say "bloody hell, that was good". It reflects my wife's feminist views with a similar level of passion, and also displays a similar love for film.

[apiphile]

Clearly your wife is good people. ;)

[moral_vacuum]

A fact I am thankful for every day.

[ivory_goddess]

It reflects my wife's feminist views with a similar level of passion, and also displays a similar love for film.

Only a damn site more eloquantly!

I'm allowed to say that, being the woman in question...