The new Goths are coming?

[gaelfarce]

Beware: the new goths are coming
Peter Almond

ONE of Britain’s most senior military strategists has warned that western civilisation faces a threat on a par with the barbarian invasions that destroyed the Roman empire.  In an apocalyptic vision of security dangers, Rear Admiral Chris Parry said future migrations would be comparable to the Goths and

Comments

[kenosis]

This thesis of his was better when it wasn't pseudo-plagiarized from Samuel Huntington.

That being said, Parry's probably a descendant of one of those barbarians who destroyed Rome, so it's hard for me to view this as anything but cyclical in the grand scheme of things.

[hollowman]

Generally, people living through grand cycles do not get to see the ultimate evening out of the chaos. I find this idea a bit alarmist, but if it does occur, it will hardly be of aid to anyone that it has happened before. Neither the Romans nor the Goths found their situations pleasant.

[kenosis]

The Goths didn't find conquering Rome pleasant?

[hollowman]

Well, no. First, they never conquered Rome, although the generally mistreated slave and vassal populations of Goths hunkering down in Roman territory did have a few good revolts, and they evens acked Rome. That's a lot different from conquest... the goths were poor, migratory people pushed out of their ancestral homes by invasion and mistreated and kicked about by the Romans they sought shelter among until they snapped and started warring openly on them. They gained nothing from this, and fell into obscurity and poverty not long after.

They had a fair bit to do with Rome's fall, but that could hardly be said to have made them happy, except insofar as causing one's enemies pain is fun. They were a lot more miserable than the Romans of the time; even after Rome began to fall apart.

[sister_stella]

I was expecting this to be about Whitby getting too big. ;)

[yarinaosu]

Am I the only one that realized that the Goths and Vandals were migrating from North to South, and that these current Migrants are going South to North, making it very opposite?

Plus, the genetics of Europe had already been mixed enough to no longer have tribal heritage in the same manner, so it shouldn't suffer from any effects. If anything should happen, people should just restore the fertility to Northern Africa and rebuild it. During the Roman times, it use to support millions.

[sollersuk]

More East to West, in fact; the first contact with the Goths was with the Eastern Empire.

And as for North Africa: there's not a lot that can be done about climate change, drop in fertility of the soil and the fact that the current population of what used to be the Roman Empire is so much more immense.

[yarinaosu]

Actually, thats kinda wrong.

Most of the tribes came from the Germanic areas, except for the Alanni and Roxolanni (which were Alanni based, and they with the Goths integrated the Scythians and Sarmatians). They were from Ukraine area. The Alemanni and Franks came from that Southern Germany, Saxons from northern, as with Burgundians, Lombards and Goths. The Goths moved down and took over the area which Dacians owned.

The Goths and the Vandals moved down. The Vandals went to Africa, the Goths went all over the Eastern Empire. The Goths were originally defeated, settled Dacia, then when the Huns came, they moved into the area north of Thessalonica. The Vandals were in Spain and had a lot of contact with the Berbers.

Actually, Northern Africa is very fertile. All you need to do is restore aquaducts. Just like Persia. The Romans destroyed the land of the Africas as the Mongols destroyed the lands of Persia, but both can be easily restored if you just work them properly.

[sollersuk]

Archaeologically, all the Late Antiquity Germanic peoples can be traced as coming from east to west. Most of the groupings you refer to were not ethnic groups but confederacies, most of whose components came from a long way further east. The picture is confused for Northern Germany, but archaeologically speaking the closest affinities in Southern Germany are to Celtic culture. For there to have been a specifically north to south movement, it would have been necessary for an identifiable people to have moved straight down from Northern Germany into Italy; as the Vandals arrived in North Africa via Gaul and Spain, there was a major east-west component.

[schmarty_hosen]

I just like the idea that Pirate is the new Goth.
Would've made my high school cafeteria MUCH more interesting.

[gaelfarce]

sadly we were the Spartans so no joy there.

[sollersuk]

My elder daughter experienced classics teaching from an unreconstructed teacher who had not quite taken on board the fact that the school was now co-educational. When at one point he said, "Of course, it was much more pleasant living in Athens than Sparta," her hand went up with a murmur of "Speak for yourself, sir!"

If I had to be Ancient Greek, I would far, far prefer to have been a Spartan.

[schmarty_hosen]

we were Vikings