new canons and teal deers, etc.

[annwyd]

It's time to round up the things I've gotten into since last I spoke with Livejournal. This is going to involve some hardcore rambling.

The big one is A Song of Ice and Fire.

Comments

[etrangere]

Trying to talk about it, though, runs me straight into either the diatribes about how the entire series is vile and its fans should be ashamed, or people who just don't have a problem with her character arc, and while of course the latter are not at fault for interpreting the text differently than I do (hell, I wish I could fall in with them; I would love to enjoy Cersei as a character), trying to explain my position to them leaves me even more uncomfortable than I started.
.... most ASOIAF fans I know are perfectly aware and critical of Cersei's writing, actually.

It is an iconic work of fantasy, but no one has truly replicated it or even transparently tried.
That's cuz I never got to write any epic fantady :p (I imprinted the fuck out of Amber. All my ideas of fantasy are strongly influenced by it).

I am now curious what influence Corwin's backstory had on the trope of the god-like being whose nature is subtly changed by an enforced sojourn or confinement among mortals. We know that Gaiman looks up to Zelazny...
Oh, nice!

[annwyd]

I have found some fans who will express similar reservations, it's true. I'll admit that I'm just very cautious in general about going into much detail about sexism and misogyny in ASOIAF, because it's such a minefield in fandom, and these days I'm really not up to some of the places those discussions can go. But yeah, I oversimplified there. I've definitely met fans with a variety of different opinions on Cersei and her writing, and some of them agree with me.

I love reading older, influential works and noticing things that might have particularly influenced later ones. I'm sure there's influence from Amber there in more recent fantasy and maybe sci-fi as well. It's just not as overt as some.

[parasaurolophus]

re: Fate/zero:

I am somewhat sad the scene with Irisviel dragging Saber out shopping was cut from the anime. I would have loved to see that. If nothing else, Iri definitely loves to live vicariously through Saber.

I feel for Kariya. He and Waver are really the only Masters I can truly call Good (though Kiritsugu is sort of almost there). Kariya is just absolutely awful at expressing himself, which only causes more problems.

[annwyd]

Aww, it's always a shame to hear about scenes that were cut from the anime. Well, maybe not so much some of the creepier "what is wrong with you, Urobuchi" scenes. But most of them.

Yeah, I think Waver's the most decent and functional of the Masters in this Grail War, and when the arrogant but insecure nerd who immediately gets in over his head is your reference point for sanity...

Kariya has a lot of issues and always did, which from what I've heard comes through more clearly in the novels. I'm going to try to read them, though I hear the translation is kind of crap.

[parasaurolophus]

Fate/zero is also one of those really odd cases, where you know exactly what's going to happen in the end, but not how it's going to get there.

[annwyd]

Well, that is the thing with prequels. It's one reason that pulling them off well can be a difficult balancing act.

[joiedecombat]

I do not have opinions on all of the things that you discuss here, but I do basically agree with most of what you say about Tiger & Bunny and Fate/Zero.

For Tiger & Bunny I really like the first thirteen episodes better than the second arc, because the first arc just generally seems to have a better idea of what it's doing, whereas the second is kind of all over the place and there are the issues you mention regarding the resolution and why exactly they spent all series building Lunatic up and then had him basically never do anything. (I did at least like him showing up to bail Kotetsu out vs. MechaTiger; it seemed like a Thing He Would Do, but then it just kind of... went nowhere. Are they saving him for a movie or something? What is the deal here?)

Regarding Fate/Zero I have nothing in particular to add, I agree with you on pretty much all ponts, particularly regarding Gilgamesh being a big tool and Rider and his relationship with Waver being amazing.

[annwyd]

You're probably onto something there with Tiger & Bunny. The latter half had a lot of interesting concepts and some nice relationship stuff (I loved the episode where Kotetsu goes home to his family), but was less organized and coherent than the first half.

The conflict between my reactions to "canon that knows what it's doing and executes its intentions well" vs. "canon that has grand ambitions and elements that hugely appeal to me, but falls down in its execution" is a thing that haunts me through all my time in anime/manga/JRPG fandom. Sigh. At least it's not particularly bad in this case.

Rider is the best and I've already decided that when I have enough knowledge of the franchise to start my epic AU Rin/Archer fanfic, he's going to be in it as well, and possibly paired with the version of Saber seen in Fate/Extra, who is Emperor Nero as a woman who also happens to be a huge ham.

[joiedecombat]

While we're on the subject of Tiger & Bunny, have you seen this?

(Keith and Yuri are my favorites. I also love how much Lunatic fanart has him practically making out with himself for some reason.)

[annwyd]

I had not seen that! It is awesome.

[sapphire_hime]

There is something about the Inheritance books that I cannot quite put my finger on. I think they're tightly written, and also enjoyable, but I don't feel as immersed in them once the reading experience is over.

Although I do find the flow of fandom writers and their transition into the published market fascinating. It makes me wonder if this is the (relatively) new way to go, a new generation of authors fed and nurtured by online fandom. I'm not discounting previous authorship by writers who have grown up in a fantasy literary atmosphere, but I think the online fandom experience is markedly different.

I keep wondering if we can sense this sort of influence and atmosphere in this new strand of publishing, especially in fantasy and YA books.

[annwyd]

Yeah, I can't really single out a specific flaw in their writing that prevents me from getting very invested (except maybe that Jemisin isn't that good at climaxes and endings sometimes? But that's not all of it), but there's just a disconnect there.

And I agree that there's a difference between coming of literary age in online fandom with all its trappings and the experiences of previous generations of sf/f writers--even the ones who were really involved in oldschool fandom. The latter have kind of an interesting connection to modern fans and sometimes it's easy to see the influence and the connection (see: Diane Duane), but it's definitely not the same.

Maybe this is something someone can do a big thesis on sometime. Maybe somebody is already working on it!

[infinitepryde]

... now you have me mentally trying to analyze Jim Butcher, C.E. Murphy, and Seanan McGuire as some kind of middle stage. :)

[annwyd]

I don't know the latter two's writing (though I know a bit about Seanan McGuire for her music, which you introduced me to, and her WoD roleplay, which was mentioned when I brought it up), but...hmm! I wonder where Naomi Novik, as a bestselling fantasy author and a continued active participant in online fandom (I don't know how she has the time and energy to write both original novels and long epic Thor/Loki fanfiction), fits in.

[nursemette]

Also stuck at the meat circus, huh?

[annwyd]

Yep. I am so not getting through that thing. I'll watch it on Youtube sometime or something like that.