"I'm not giving you what you want - I'm giving you what you need."

[anna_sg1]

Joss Whedon famously said that to his fans when they rebellod ove some or other decision he made as a showrunner. But then again, Joss is awsome and can afford to say this.

Can everyone else?

There's a very good article in The Guardian - The power Of Heroes worship.

(thanx to dcwash for the link

Comments

[maureen_cohen]

Daniel Jackson was just the example I was thinking of. They gave the fans what they wanted.

However, despite two years of petitions, Jo Harvelle fans have yet to get her back. I would like to see her back.

[anna_sg1]

Daniel Jackson was just the example I was thinking of. They gave the fans what they wanted.

Yeah, there was even an add for SciFi that had a fan letter on it asking that they bring Daniel back and below the letter they wrote "Consider it done." :)

I do understand that it was probably more that just fans wanting him back on the show but kudos to SciFi for using it the actual reason. :)

[maureen_cohen]

Yeah, well, why Supernatural has lost so many characters is exactly why it's where it is. I heard that there's one forum where Kripke goes on and so...why don't we see Jo or Ellen anymore and the only reoccurring character is Bobby is because of the fangirls on the forums where Kripke looks for fan reactions.

Oh man, my dad's watching SG-1 and I've never noticed how much Daniel and O'Neill sound like Sam and Dean (or really it's how the Winchesters sound like Danny and O'Neill).

[anna_sg1]

I've never noticed how much Daniel and O'Neill sound like Sam and Dean (or really it's how the Winchesters sound like Danny and O'Neill).

Heee! Totally alike! At least in banter. :)

As for the other thing... I would assume it's much more than just Kripke looking at forums. IMO lots of things are a problem with recurring actors. Their availability for one, their paychecks for another, then you have to make up possible stories to put them in (without damaging your invisioned story plan for the whole season)... and then come the fans input. Fans influence is there but I really don't believe it's that BIG on the showrunners.

And I gotta say... as much as I would looove to see some of the characters back... *cough*John*cough* I do LOVE where SPN is going. I really have no grievences. Which is rare.

[moonlightstorm]

Why did they take Daniel out of a whole season, anyway? And I'm assuming from what you said that he was brought back because people were outraged?

I think there definitely has to be a balance. The writers have a story that they want to tell, but if the fanbase gets fed up with it or really hates something then you're only going to hurt yourself if you don't try and fix it. Nobody wins if it gets taken off the air thanks to lack of viewers.

[hold_onhope]

I might be wrong here, but I think they wrote Daniel out at the end of season 5 because Michael Shanks wanted out.

[moonlightstorm]

He wanted out?! Oh man, how glad am I that they managed to talk him into coming back then.

[anna_sg1]

And I'm assuming from what you said that he was brought back because people were outraged?

It's more of a combined effort of fans and MS and tptb. Ratings, too. :) As much as tptb were saying how everyone LOVES Jonas, the second they made an agreement with MS... Corin Nemec was out. *g* So much for the love.

It really wasn't just SaveDanielJackson campaing that did it (there were many other things going on)... but in a small way - yes. *proud*

Nobody wins if it gets taken off the air thanks to lack of viewers.

Yes, but you can have a very loyal fanbase on-line and the ratings are still low. It's difficult for the producers to see what fans really like just using information from the net... it simply isn't a representative sample of their viewers. I admit, it's a slippery slope.

You have Tim Kring, who admitted that the 3rd season of Heroes wad bad (coz the fans kept saying so) and now he gave the fans what they wanted and the ratings went TOTALLY down.

Personally, I'm with Joss.

[misplaced_angst]

I think it all depends on the show and who the writer is. Joss is Boss he has always done things his way and his fans have always followed him in it. He has a very faithful fan base, not ever writer gets that.

I think sometimes the average writer has to cave in order to keep fans. Like Stargate did when they brought back Daniel because so many fans were turned off by Jonas, had they found a more appealing replacement they might not have brought Daniel back.

[anna_sg1]

He has a very faithful fan base, not ever writer gets that.

Indeed. He's simply the awsomest person ever. Now if only FOX would see that and use his awsomness. Idiots.

had they found a more appealing replacement they might not have brought Daniel back.

Or (IMO), had they introduced Jonas to the show in a different way... not in the way that can even remotely connect him (the replacement) with the death of the original.

Also, the reason for MS leaving wasn't a creative decision to make a dramatic episode (like with Teryl Rothery for example)... it was more of a miscommunication with tptb. When they resolved it, he came back.

Now the whole Carson thing! IMO That's caving to fans desires.

[misplaced_angst]

Now if only FOX would see that and use his awsomness. Idiots.

I want to know what Joss did to piss off Fox, or if Fox is really that retarded? I have already read articles about how Fox is going to give Dollhouse a few episodes and if ratings aren't through the roof they are pulling it. What is up with that? The show hasn't even started and they are threating to pull it. Didn't they learn their lesson with Firefly? Joss has the most faithful fans, fans who tune in every week.

sorry for the rant, Fox angers me.)

Now the whole Carson thing! IMO That's caving to fans desires.

I think they brought back Carson because they knew that they had pushed the fans too far, killing off two main characters that close together. And IMO the reason that they brought back Carson is because he was more universally liked by the fans. Elizabeth had a lot of fans but there were still some that didn't like her. I have yet to meet anyone who couldn't stand Carson. (they might be out there though)

[anna_sg1]

I think they're just retarded.

FOX is doing the exact same thing to Dollhouse like they did with Firefly. Joss already had to re-do the whole Pilot ep to please the ptb (like he had to with Firefly). Now all Fox has to do is show the episodes in random order...(like with Firefly). *eyeroll*.

And for the comparison to work completely, Dollhouse also got the death-slot Friday night for airing.

Them being retarded is really the only reasonable conclusion. :)

I gotta agree with you on the Carson/Weir thing. Beckett was definitley more liked. I mean, they even had a protest in front of Bridge studios dressed in kilts and playing bag-pipes and what-not.

[anuna_81]

Ah do you know already what I'm gonna say? Yes you do. It was a different thing with Elizabeth and her fans.

[anna_sg1]

Yeah. *sigh* That was just a case of tptb being dicks.

Sadly, happens sometimes. *thinks of Firefly*

[godzchild96]

They wanted to bring Torri back for that one ep of season 5 (Ghost in the Machine), but she refused. In that case, even if they did want her back more than that, Torri may have said no.

Interestingly, this topic of how much say fans should get will be discussed on Gateworld.com's podcast in a couple of weeks. It will be a lively discussion, I imagine.

[godzchild96]

Edit: That's Gateworld.NET not COM.

[anna_sg1]

LOL yeah, I know GW. :)

I wish I could watch the podcast. Tell me how it goes? *bats eyelashes*

Torri may have said no.

Torri would have definetly said no. TPTB kinda screwed her over with the whole repli!Weir thing and bumping her to just a special guest star.

[godzchild96]

The podcast is audio only, BTW. Maybe this is a stupid question, but why can't you listen to it?