On Fridging

[angstbunny]

I think it is inaccurate and dangerous to use the term "fridged" for a male character death unless that male character death is done in a way that mimicks/comments on/subverts the trope. Just because a male character has died, or that he died to motivate other characters, that doesn't constitute a fridging. The whole concept of "fridging" comes

Comments

[redfiona99]

I think an important part of it is that the person being fridged pretty much as to be civilian (you know what I mean) and not-directly-storyline related reason for being in a position where their death occurs. Someone like Coulson (about which I have many, many opinions) can't be fridged because he's a valid target and because he's not targeted, he happens to be there for storyline reasons.

Someone like Angell in CSI:New York, her death annoys me, but I can't see it as a 'proper' fridging because it was in the line of duty, while Mac's wife is a 'fridging' for me, because she dies at random.

I can think of one male comic fridging, where it was one of the Green Lantern's secretary, who gets killed not because of that but because it will upset the Lantern. (It's might be Green Arrow's secretary. Why are they all green?)

[angstbunny]

Hmmmmm, I don't know. I'm not sure I agree with the civilian condition. I think it's still a fridging even if the death is for storyline reasons and the woman is in the line of fire. If Coulson were a woman, I think it'd count as a fridging. Chick!Coulson dies, All the Dudes Are Sad and Galvinized To Action

[redfiona99]

I think my bit about the civilians is because I'm also sick of the reverse where 'silly woman, you can't go into the line of fire, you might get killed'. I think, using the Coulson example, it wouldn't be fridging if she were a woman because Coulson has always been about getting the job done. She would be dying doing her thing as opposed to say Jessica in Supernatural who died because of Sam's thing. If that makes sense

[angstbunny]

That's true. I'm torn about Coulson, I guess, because like you point out, he's doing his own thing when he died, and if he were a woman, that'd still be the case. I strongly value the idea that a woman can die for a cause and that women can be soldiers. But the narrative hung a lampshade on the fact that Coulson died for motivational reasons by having Fury manipulate it into one. So it is very much a "he died to make sure other people do their thing." Gah. IDK IDK.

Hmmm, yeah, Angell does sound 50/50. I'm glad at least that she died for a reason.

[croik]

Ugh, are people really saying that about Coulson? I don't understand why some people are so eager to use these female specific terms on male characters, as if it's balancing the scales. Like any time a guy is shirtless, it's "FEMALE GAZE." Haha, no.

[foolish_m0rtal]

Totally agree. I also hate how they justify it with, "Oh, we have shirtless guys, so that is totally an equal opportunity gaze, so give us moar boobs."

I don't think guys have ever been objectified and felt humiliated like women have. I remember one time a guy was writing an article about women getting catcalled in the street, and he was genuinely confused. He said, "If a woman came up to me on the street and complimented me, I would be thrilled, and I'm trying to understand why women don't feel the same way" and all of us reading the article were just like, OH HELL NO.

[angstbunny]

Not enough -_- in the world.

NOT ENOUGH -_- IN THE WORLD.

[brickhousewench]

RE: Salt. It's almost as if the script had originally been written for a male lead. OH WAIT, IT WAS!!!!

[foolish_m0rtal]

Hahaha, YES. That was something I was really excited about in Salt, that they just shrugged and said, "Whatever, we can cast a female lead and just not do any rewrites." It's sort of a bummer that the fridged male was supposed to be yet another dead female, though. *sigh*

[angstbunny]

YES. That's the best part. Nothing really got rewritten to make it a "feminine" role. Everything played straight.

But at the same time, yes, because they played it straight, it's like side eye because it was originally a male-lead story.

[angstbunny]

LOLOLOL RITE

[bluerosefairy]

I love this meta.

Coulson dying? Not a fridging. His death only motivated a bunch of male characters.

Seriously, not a fridging. Coulson was never defined as being anyone's significant other, or having no other place in the plot. He was specifically a SHIELD agent in every appearance, shown to have considerable power within SHIELD/the greater superhero world, and never presented as being romantically attached to a prominent male character (sorry, Clint/Coulson shippers, still not canon). Coulson was a high-profile agent and died doing his job, not specifically because it would cause a member of the Avengers team pain.

The circumstances under which a male character can be considered as fridged? Salt, when Salt's husband is killed. There is basically nothing to his character other than: 1) he is Salt's husband; 2) he studies spiders; 3) when he is killed, Salt goes on vengeance rampage. His death motivates Salt's actions.

My go-to example of a male fridging would be Danny from Alias. He's Sydney's dead fiance, killed by Arvin Sloane

[angstbunny]

RF and I are torn about whether Coulson would count as a fridging if he were a chick instead. Now that's a question. RF brought up the very good fact that Coulson died doing his own thing, which is what chick!Coulson would have done, too. There's been some good establishment of his character. His likes, his habits, his personality, the way he interacts with other characters in the universe. He does not have a story of his own, granted, because adjunct characters are adjunct characters. What trips ME is that his death as motivational plot device is lampshaded by Fury manipulating it into being one, so it's like... while Coulson died, it made people sad, but it didn't become motivational until Fury MADE it into one. So if Coulson were a chick, would she be fridged? Hmmmmmmmmm. IDK.

Oooooooooooooooh yes. I don't watch Alias, but I know of it, and yes, that's a good one.

[foolish_m0rtal]

I was really turned off Supernatural because of the two fridged women in the first episode alone. I'm staying for the sarcasm, and I guess we'll see where it goes, but I'm not hopeful. Also, kind of creeped out by the knowledge that the Supernatural staff apparently stalked the fandom and worked fandom kinks into the show, which is all kinds of embarrassing. I hate when media gets too close to its own fandom. It never ends well. Never.

[angstbunny]

SPN IS SO AWFUL. It makes me feel like a bad feminist BUT I KEEP WATCHING.

So. Yeah. I'm part of the precipitate. ;_;