Buffy and the Final Girl

[angearia]

I've been reading a few links today that led to some thinky thoughts.  It started here at elisi's where she proclaimed "Behold!  I have discovered where S8 came from!" and there's some interesting discussion in the comments.

Comments

[elisi]

I don't have any clever things to say, but this was very interesting.

[angearia]

Yeah, I'm still thinking it all through, but as I was reading the description of the Final Girl, I thought it was too simplistic for coffeeandink to say that Buffy wasn't the Final Girl. There was too much about that definition that did resonate with Buffy's character.

In the beginning, Buffy wasn't the Final Girl, but I think over the years, Whedon has made her more and more become the Final Girl.

It also reminds me of how Whedon jokingly (but perhaps honestly) a "sad, bitter man" and how Buffy's descent into Final Girl status is connected to his own maturation. This battle between being the hero, the survivor and the victim.

[norwie2010]

Very interesting. I'll think about it some more and reply again, just so much now:

Within the twilight arc , Buffy is not the Final Girl - she defies a fundamental characteristic of the Final Girl: Buffy is sexually empowered, in fact, her sexuality opens the possibility for her survival. That is pretty much diametrically opposed to the trope.

Dawn as Buffy's human side on the other hand....

[angearia]

She defies one fundamental characteristic, but I think you can view her being punished by her sexuality therein. For Buffy, her sexuality leads to her being the lone survivor, which is the ultimate definition of the Final Girl. That she is the Final Girl. That's the most important characteristic of the figure--that the Final Girl survives while others die. The punishment for sexuality is part of the larger horror trope and thus interacts with the Final Girl figure, but it is not purely a fundamental of the Final Girl--and Buffy dooms the world to die by engaging in her empowered sexuality, so it's a bit like her becoming the Final Girl by breaking a horror trope rule--almost like she can't escape being the Final Girl, no matter what she does. And for Buffy, her becoming the Final Girl when others die means her sexual empowerment is killing humanity. And thus, her empowering sexuality again becomes punishment and not reward--which means Buffy still falls in line with the horror trope of punishing women for their sexuality. Only

[norwie2010]

You make convincing arguments

[angearia]

I think what you and I are discussing is something I touched on above--that Buffy is torn between two states of the Final Girl and the Subverted Victim. She's not purely one or the other. So she's never going to be purely the Final Girl. But in looking at the aspects within, she still has those present.

As for Buffy being with Angel in Twilight, I don't consider Angel as a survivor. He's the one who brings her into the state of the Final Girl. He's not like the other victims who die and the fate that the Final Girl narrowly escapes. He's outside the equation.

[larabeckinsale]

Wow, you went deep here, a little too deep to read it and understand it all from my "english is not my mother language" pov but I love you for forcing my brain!

How wonderful are all of you women for doing this meta thing? I'm so happy to belong to this portion of fandom!

[angearia]

Hee! Yeah, I went so deep that I'm still trying to work it out myself.

We have wonderfully thoughtful women here. :D

[aycheb]

Coffeeandink’s essay focuses on the first two seasons, in which Buffy could more simply be defined in terms of horror movie conventions whether subverting or embodying them. But even classic final girls grow up. In the sequels to Terminator and Alien both Sarah Connor and Ripley have more than personal survival at stake, they have family to protect too and both succeed where Buffy fails. Everybody lives in Terminator II and Aliens but Buffy can only save Dawn by sacrificing herself (S5 is kind of regressive in many ways). Buffy gets a second chance with the potentials as surrogate family and wins the first round but, as for Sarah and Ripley, it never really ends there’s always a third act.

In S8 Buffy is rather more than the lone final girl or unknown victim and much of the season’s focus seems to me to be on the challenges becoming a known quantity brings. I thought it was interesting that in #33 she never accuses Angel or doing things to her personally (as she did in Amends) it's all about her girls or her people, us not me. That

[angearia]

But even classic final girls grow up

The point of that essay though was that Buffy is not the Final Girl, but the Victim Subverted. I think what coffeeandink's defines as the Final Girl tension of the Slayer's influence eventually becomes a stronger and stronger influence. But that Buffy originally is the Victim Subverted who eventually succumbs to the Final Girl influence. And this tension remains in her character. That's part of her duality.

But it's also interesting to me how the horror trope of sexuality = punishment continues on and on in Whedon's work. If Final Girls eventually grow up, then why hasn't this trope been outgrown?

In the sequels to Terminator and Alien both Sarah Connor and Ripley have more than personal survival at stake, they have family to protect too and both succeed where Buffy fails

Buffy fails in The Gift, but she succeeds in other ways too. Heck, every episode she's saving someone. She's got family to protect and she succeeds in defeating the bad guy

[aycheb]

But my point was that those horror tropes are more dynamic and evolving than you seem to give them credit for. They come back but they come back in different, older and wiser forms. I'd add that Buffy is also more than just the victim subverted she began as in the movie. In season one the more obvious source of her is the reluctant hero and being a hero is as much if not more the source of her isolationist tendencies than PTSD from all the personal attacks she survived in victim mode.

I don't think we're likely to agree, I don't see Buffy as damaged in the way you do. I see her early emotional openness as, in many ways, a childish trait, as a child she (although not all children) could afford to trust people, expect them to look out for her. Now she looks out for them.

But it's also interesting to me how the horror trope of sexuality = punishment continues on and on in Whedon's work. If Final Girls eventually grow up, then why hasn't this trope been outgrown? You didn't comment on my interpretation of the space fuck being just one

[penny_lane_42]

Oooh. I loved reading this. It sort of reminds me of my post you linked to, just in the sense that you have all this information but you aren't quite sure of what conclusion to reach--that's how I felt when I assembled my lists.

And I don't have the answer, either, but I found everything here fascinating!

[angearia]

*nods* Yeah, just thinking this all through. I'm actually a bit unfamiliar with the horror tropes because, well, I hate horror movies. See: my comment above. And it makes me wonder how Joss clearly hated the way the blonde girl always was victimized. But I wonder, why didn't he hate the trope that sex leads to punishment?

[penny_lane_42]

Yeah, I hate them, too, which is a huge part of the reason I have no real insight into this.

But I wonder, why didn't he hate the trope that sex leads to punishment?

YES. I wonder this as well. He seems to believe that any little bit of happiness has to be paid for tenfold. Also, that only pain can produce a satisfying story. Which--yeah, you need conflict to have any story at all. But if he really thinks it needs to be ALL GLOOM AND DOOM ALL THE TIME, he needs to watch this latest season of Doctor Who, is all I have to say.