Buffy and the Final Girl

[angearia]

I've been reading a few links today that led to some thinky thoughts.  It started here at elisi's where she proclaimed "Behold!  I have discovered where S8 came from!" and there's some interesting discussion in the comments.

Comments

[norwie2010]

You make convincing arguments. :-)

One thing to consider is, that

a) Buffy is not "lone" in twilight: as much as i pity the Buffy/Angel love story, Buffy is pretty much with someone she loves/loved (in a sexually satisfying relationship).

b) Twilight is not the normal, unchanged world to which the Final girl returns changed. It is a place Buffy may shape to her own desire (how far that ranges is our guess, ATM).

As within the slasher film, humanity in twilight is just the (not-so-innocent) bystander/first victim - but the slasher trope is not about the Final Girl being guilty of letting the not-so-innocents die (that is of their own making - within that trope - , mostly through unchastity). That's where i'd say that the slasher trope is not applicable to twilight-gate.

But, hm, as i said: You make a convincing argument. I'd like to know more about this twilight crap before calling my thoughts final.

Please note that i only take exception to parts of Your twilight explanation - i think You are right generally (that Whedon, while subverting certain tropes falls for other tropes nonetheless).

I also wanted to thank You for the immense work You put out over the last days - it is always a pleasure as well as thought-provoking reading from You (even if I don't follow Your argument completely in this particular discussion. But really, it is just a minor point in another great article).

[angearia]

I think what you and I are discussing is something I touched on above--that Buffy is torn between two states of the Final Girl and the Subverted Victim. She's not purely one or the other. So she's never going to be purely the Final Girl. But in looking at the aspects within, she still has those present.

As for Buffy being with Angel in Twilight, I don't consider Angel as a survivor. He's the one who brings her into the state of the Final Girl. He's not like the other victims who die and the fate that the Final Girl narrowly escapes. He's outside the equation.

[eilowyn]

He's outside the equation.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that Angel forces the equation? He does have a role in there, somehow, and I'm inclined to make him the killer who forces the Final Girl change into the Final Girl or makes the Subverted Victim a victim of the Universe itself. Yet another aspect of the Twilight arc (and Season 8 in general) that I have a problem with.

But that shouldn't surprise you.

[angearia]

Right, but because he's forcing it, he's outside it in some respects. He's not the Victim and he's not the Final Girl. And he doesn't quite fit as the Killer. That's why I said outside. And because it's the Universe pulling Angel's strings to an unidentifiable extent, I can't really attribute what he's doing as himself doing it.

[eilowyn]

(Damn, you're too fast for my edititing skills)

What I was thinking of in terms of the fact that as more sequels get made, the Final Girl comes to realize that her story is inevitably intertwined with that of the killer (is there a chapter on the relationship between the Final Girl and the killer?), where it seems almost inescapable that she'll come up against this killer again, no matter the identity of the person behind the mask (heh). The Twilight arc felt like a cyclic rehashing of Season 2, in some ways; and in terms of the other seasons, I'm always coming back to your "Spike mirrors Angel, but in a positive way" thesis: Spike, had he lived, would have been the one to break the unhealty cyclic relationship Buffy has of always going back to Angel, even if he never stays.

I think it connects to her having ignored how losing Spike has emotionally affected her for all of Season 8

This feels so true to me; and her connection to Spike being the thing that breaks the cycle, though I realize we probably won't get anything worthwhile (other than a patronizing *sigh* in the blurb) that heads towards that end. Angelus was the known killer in Season 2, was the masked bad guy for most of Season 8, and is the instigator of the possible world endage making Buffy once again be the Final Girl. It's the killer that "pushes" the heroine to evolve into the Final Girl, and doesn't that language feel oddly familiar?

Okay, so maybe I just have a hard-on to label Angel as the bad guy in this scenario. Without Cordy or Spike around to needle him, I just don't like the guy!

[angearia]

Hee! Sorry for being too fast.

I love your thoughts. And yeah, I think you're getting there with the Angel in the role of the Killer. I've been pondering it more and I think you're right in how that connects.

This feels so true to me

Well, we're thought twins! We speaka the same language, ya!

I actually really hate horror movies. Like, I'm surrounded by friends that are all obsessed with them. Literally. OBSESSED. My best friends in college, my best friend Leia, and I just never want to watch them. And I think it's probably because I hate the inherent misogyny of it--that it's unvarnished and demonized. So it's interesting to me how much I love BtVS for subverting certain horror tropes even while perpetuating some--and that now I realize I'm still uncomfortable with what's being perpetuated, but at least I have a positive force battling it out.

[eilowyn]

Well, fine then!

Damn you and your logical . . . logic.

[angearia]

Lol! No, you make good points about how Angel does fit the Killer role. Which I think now works when you don't view it too strictly. So I was actually viewing it a bit too literally at first and now I think you're right, so there.

[eilowyn]

This is new. I think I'm gonna now refer to this post next time I get into an argument with my brother. "Well, one of my fandom friends whom I've never met in real life thinks I'm right, so there!" Yes, we are very, very mature in my household.