driveby rant on fantasy languages

[an_lagat_glas]

The thing that bothers me about names and languages in fantasy novels is that the authors so rarely understand how languages actually work. I hate weirdly-spelled things that don't sound anything like the letters on the page say they should, like Kahlen and Nynaeve. Presumably the fantasy world does not use the English language or alphabet, so

Comments

[mythopathy]

Tolkien really has spoiled me for 95% of fantasy.
I knoooow rite?????????? I mean it's pretty much always a problem with me to see the name as it should sound since my first instinct it to pronounce each letter like I would in Greek or Latin or Spanish but some authors (Christopher Paolini) get it really really wrong.

Games of Thrones will be interesting now. I bet in my head even "Petyr Baelish" sounds different than I'm imagining.

[an_lagat_glas]

I refuse to read Eragon. Just, argh.

Yeah, English fantasy writers tend to go for vaguely Celtic-y sounding names, probably because of the Arthurian stuff. Though I do have to plug (again) for Sarah Monette, who really does use language well (mostly French-ish sounding).

You know, GoT doesn't really bother me. He leans toward the Weird Vowel Problem that plagues so many fantasy writers but so far I've felt his names have been pronounceable. Like I think that dude's name is probably 'Peter Baylish' and ae looks weird but ACTUALLY DOES make the /ai/ sound in some words. Unless we get to the show and they're calling him something like Petire Beelish. Then I'll start throwing things.

Hot damn, I need me some Stark icons.

[thymelady]

THIS!

It took me ages to accept such anachronisms and to make things worse, I didn't read LOTR trilogy until I was in my twenties AFTER having studied languages, history and Medieval Archaeology. I know I come off as snobby in some circles, but the whole historical "copy copy, cut it around and then paste it in all wrong" put me off in a degree I still have a hard time to live with. But I've learnt to live with some of it and put myself above it - even enjoy it for what it is. (Snobby, moi?) I would hardly be in the RH fandom otherwise. ;-)

But I really can't handle fantasy names. I've had to put down books because the names were so crazy. It just puts me off too much.

[an_lagat_glas]

Do you mean that you don't really like Tolkien because of his copying and reworking? See, that's part of why I do love him--because he's doing what everyone else is doing, but he's not a complete hack ; ) I guess I feel like he's fairly successful because he's not just copying, he *understands* what he's copying. For example, I was ranting awhile ago about a modern reworking of one of my favorite bits from a saga because the author had completely just missed the point of the section, and what the stakes were for that (female, warrior) character. Tolkien understands, though, because he's read/studied/translated the literature, which is why Eowyn is so successful as a character. Not to say his writing is perfect, and at times you rather wonder what he *didn't* steal, but I think the fact that he's writing about things in which he's been immersed just puts him light-years above most other fantasy writers.

I hope I didn't completely misinterpret your comment!

[thymelady]

Not at all, my dear! :-) But back in those days, it annoyed me to no end that he did borrow all that and made it fantasy when it could have been good, Medieval fiction that had made people understand history better and that he'd changed to suit his own imagination instead. Yeah, I judged him hard. Didn't appreciate LOTR for what it was at all, probably because it was so hyped in my generation and upon asking people more closely, they hadn't caught the meaning of it anyway.

Then there was a burial of warriors in the middle of book two that totally took liberties with archaeological facts. After that, the Riders of Rohan rode off and I exclaimed: "GOOD RIDDANCE". But I did finish the trilogy some months later. ;-) But I was ANGRY, OMG!

I actually liked The Hobbit a lot! Nice to know now that RA's in it. :-) Though I didn't remember any dwarfs in it, Shire and Bilbo in Gollum's cave was basically all I remember of it.

[an_lagat_glas]

I don't remember The Hobbit at all. I should probably re-read that over the summer. I wonder if he'll try to do The Silmarillion next.

I have to say--and maybe it's just my current mood--I wonder how much we can get people to understand the middle ages through historical fiction. Maybe we just haven't had a good person to do that. For example, the Brother Cadfael books are awesome, but they're peripheral; Pillars of the Earth is a fabulous miniseries but I found the book unreadable. And I often feel awkward about people using real characters--they so often do silly things. I did love Les Rois Maudits (well, up to the last one when he randomly changed perspective) but I sort of wonder if historical fiction doesn't say more about us than the period that we're writing about. I don't know, it's something I have to think about more.