triggered

[amw]

Did i write about the time i was made to declare my pronouns

Comments

[spiffikins]

That just seems SO cringe-inducing and like, clearly NOBODY ran this idea past anyone who might actually have experienced being misgendered or having to constantly correct assumptions of their gender. You *know* that there were 3 people in HR who came up with this idea who were high fiving and congratulating themselves on being "woke" and "allies" and going "yay us, we're awesome"

But what a horrible idea.

I am 100% for educating people on the concept that gender is a construct, and a label, and if you are going to use that label, at least use the label that the person you are referring to, wants you to use.

But putting people in a position of having to *literally* slap that label on their chest and then be forced to justify/talk about that label with everyone else in the room in 100 painful conversations? UGH.

[amw]

I've spoken to some people in my circles who are LGBT activists about this before, and they agreed that this was well-intentioned but perhaps not the best way to go about it. Even if it is just an opt-in, it still feels like it's creating uncomfortable situations for people who actually are trans or non-binary (whether closeted/stealth or just shy) and don't want to have those conversations

[belleweather]

When I'm asked what my pronouns are I always want to say "Well, I prefer мне, నేను and dumneavoastră...." (That's 'me' in the dative in Russian, the nominative I (nehnu) in Telugu, and my very favorite, the formal you in Romanian which works for singular, plural and all genders and means something in the neighborhood of "respected god-given person" etomologically-speaking) But as a cis-presenting woman, I'm aware that it probably just makes me look like an asshole, so I just grumble. I prefer to think about my gender as little as humanly possible and get annoyed when forced to do otherwise.

[amw]

I know, right? Gender is one of those things where the less i have to think about it, the better. And usually in society - even as a gay trans person who's probably thought about gender a lot more than the average person - i don't actually need to think about it all that much. It's only when the pronoun declaration trend started up that it became more of a problematic issue for me again.

Personally i think being asked the question is annoying and insensitive, but i'd rather encounter the question here and there from people who (mistakenly) think they're being nice than feel obliged to wear it on my sleeve, you know? Of course nobody is being forced at gunpoint to put a badge on at a conference, or update their Slack or LinkedIn bio, but when a lot of people in your group do, there is some pressure there. Plus just seeing other people's pronouns in all-text apps like Slack is pushing gender into spaces where previously it wasn't relevant. Sigh.

[dadi]

So much this.

[opakele]

At work, leadership types make a point of declaring their pronouns in their signatures. I have not been so inclined and appreciate your comments.

I have made non-traditional choices in my life and do not regret any of them. I resent putting myself in a box and tend to avoid boxes. I am willing to accept others as they are. I don't need lots of detail, unless a relationship allows that.

That being said, if pronoun declaration is a step to normalization(?), I'm all for it. I worry my reluctance to participate will be misinterpreted, though.

[amw]

I guess what i don't really understand is what it is that we are trying to "normalize". For male/female pronouns, it's no big deal to correct someone if they get it wrong, same way you'd correct someone if they pronounced your name wrong. The only thing that i think is really a new trend is wanting to be referred to as gender neutral "they", which is presumably why Star Trek put it in their episode, and why some celebrities are talking about it nowadays. Even still, i don't really see preemptive self-declaration as something that should be normalized, though. That feels so uncomfortable and regressive to me.

[daphnep]

This is really interesting, and it’s the first time I’ve heard such an objection. Isn’t the point not so much disclosing private business, but rather being the one to determine how people refer to you, rather than being at the mercy of others perceptions? That seems a key distinction from your atheist example: religion does not come up in every neutral conversation about us, but because of the faults of our language, gender does

[amw]

I guess this is why i find the whole thing so irritating. If i'm talking about person X and i misgender them while in a conversation with A and B, who cares? It really doesn't matter what gender person X is. If X is part of the conversation, and it's very important to them, then it's trivial for them to interrupt and make a correction. (As i mentioned in a comment above, this could be seen as similar to the correction you might make if someone pronounced your name wrong

[motodraconis]

I always refer to my students as "they" then writing to my boss. I have so many students and no idea of names to faces, so when they write to me, I honestly have no idea if their Norwegian name is traditionally male or female. I'd have to guess, or google... and I don't have the fucking time for that. My boss will write back saying, "yes I've spoken to him" or "I'll contact her" and I'll look at the Norwegian name and think...yup... would have guessed wrong. EVERY TIME

[amw]

I was big on "they" in China, because i had absolutely no idea what was a male or female name. In spoken Chinese it's even easier because he, she and it are all pronounced exactly the same (only the written characters are different, due to them being created for the specific purpose of translating western literature in the early 20th century).

I am very pleased that we no longer need to use honorifics in correspondence. I also have had these difficult moments where i knew the family name but not the gender of the person, back in the old days when we were supposed to write Dear Mr/Mrs So-and-so. Nowadays i am so glad that it's perfectly acceptable to start an email just with Hi Bob, or even leave out the name altogether and just go with Hi.

Being put in situations where i am forced to select an honorific for myself really gets my hackles up. (These days that's usually only a problem with airlines due to the ancient computer systems they use.)

[coercedbynutmeg]

I'm a het/cis/binary WYSIWYG female, and I'd have picked a blank one and left it blank, in rebellion to something so ridiculous. WTF, dude? Why does it freaking matter?