(Untitled)

[amblinx1138]

I’ve never understood why an Atheist or an Agnostic would want to walk around with an ipod they got for "Christmas."

The whole “well, I celebrate the gift giving aspect of Christmas” just doesn’t cut it for me.

Comments

[swashbuckler332]

The easy answer I have to this is that Christmas. while it has religious roots, can ultimately be viewed (along with any holiday) as a social event, little different from other secular holidays such as Thanksgiving or New Years. I get to see parts of my family that I don't ordinarily get to see. After all, even before I realized I was an Atheist, that side of my family still welcomed me at Christmas despite the fact that I was Jewish. There's really no difference.

[amblinx1138]

That is certainly a popular way of looking at it, and many Christians even feel the same way. At the same time though, I do have to disagree with you in your comparison to Thanksgiving and New Years. Yes, it is a similar time for socializing and getting together, but it also represents a very important event in the Christian faith, making it rather unique from Thanksgiving or New Years. The whole commercialization of Christmas has been talked about for years, but in the end, believe it or not, there still are some people who feel its important to celebrate the birth of whom they consider to be their Lord and Savior. Atheists, by nature, deny this. I suppose it would be like me celebrating the eight days of Hanukkah, even though I'm not Jewish, in order to see loved ones and receieve 8 different presents. It just seems a bit inappropriate to me and contradictory to one's beliefs. Of course I have nothing against seeing loved ones and the exchanging of presents, regardless of what one's beliefs are. I suppose the point I'm

Swashbluckler332's comment re-posted

[amblinx1138]

Sorry, deleted comment on accident when attempting to post my own.

Here's what Josh had to say.

If you choose have a very pious view of the holiday, that's your perogative. But you have to be realistic about the fact that we now live in a multicultural world. Yes, there is nothing inherent in the holiday for an Atheist other than the social aspect, but that is something that is prevalent throughout the population. It's how societies and customs evolve.

I'm not talking about the much-discussed 'commercialization,' which is, in fact, a relatively recent development. Almost everything about the modern form of the holiday has nothing to do with the the birth of Jesus, from the time of year it is celebrated to most of the rituals, which stem from Germanic Winter Soltice customs.

Re: Swashbluckler332's comment re-posted

[amblinx1138]

THE REST OF WHAT JOSH HAD TO SAY.....

While I'm sure that you don't mean it this way, your statements come across as "It's my holiday, damn it, keep your grubby heathen mitts off of it." If you don't like Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, Muslims or Buddhists participating, don't invite them over.

[holycathiders]

i didnt do xmas this year. i didnt get anyone anything. but my parents and jasons parents like it and they all got me stuff. we saw them all and said "merry christmas" and all that jazz.

doesnt mean i believe in it, but "celebrating" it makes everyone else happy. and who am i to turn down gifts?

ive had alot of christians get REALLY mad at me. i can celebrate what i want. who are you to tell me which holidays i can participate in. being as i dont beleive in any of them... i can do which ever i want. think im going to hell, i dont care, but dont turn your nose up at me like you are superior.

[holycathiders]

ps: jews dont get mad at me when i celebrate Hanukkah
in fact, they encourage it

so whats that about

[thinkimcool]

Rich isn't turning his nose up at you he's just saying it doesn't make much sense reaping the benefits of something that you don't put any effort into the rest of the year. Besides being a celebration of the birth of the man who many believe is the greatest thing to happen to humanity Christmas is also a reward for being Christian all year same thing with Hanukah (sp?) for the Jewish. It's sort of like putting in 40 hours at work and having the guy who called in all week recieving the same pay check as you.

[amblinx1138]

Wow

[emmerz87]

when someone you love gives you a gift i think it might offend them a little to tell them u cant accept it because you dont celebrate their holiday. i dont expect people to get me gifts, but i also cant force them not to. and personally, i think you should just focus on celebrating the birth of jesus and not worry about what all the atheists and agnostics are doing. just be happy that the holiday is getting non-christians to get together with their loved ones and be happy and exchange gifts.

[emmerz87]

o and if you think that ur friends are deciding early on in life that their atheist. i think its absurd that the catholic church makes kids confirm thier belief in christianity at the age of 13.

[amblinx1138]

Emily, the Catholic church doesn't "make" you do anything. You have free will to do what you please. It's your parents that made you go to church, and your parents that expected you to walk through all the sacrements. It is of no suprise to me that you want nothing to do with the Catholic church or religion, because you feel it was forced upon you and crammed down your throat. You never wished to embrace anything it had to offer because it must have always felt like a chore to you, rather than spiritual enlightenment. Furthermore, its just another reminder of your parents oppression. All religions are ultimately created and organized by man and are subject to his errors and imperfections. I can't stand half the things the Catholic church does myself, but religion and faith as you already know are seperate

[amblinx1138]

"when someone you love gives you a gift i think it might offend them a little to tell them u cant accept it because you dont celebrate their holiday

[anonymous]

rule number 1: judaism is a "party religion

[amblinx1138]

Thank you for the elaborate analysis, but I knew most of that stuff already, and my mind is still set. It still seems silly to me for an Athiest or Agnostic to walk around with a brand new IPOD they got for Christmas, regardless of how commercial or secular or popular of a holiday Christmas has become.

"it seems like this would be a better time to capitalize on the fact that people actually like something about the religion, instead of turning it into a "drag your feet and pout" proclamation."

The only "part of the religion" you're embracing is the idea of recieving gifts for free.....who WOULDN'T like that?

I don't recall ever claiming Christians owned the right to "gift-giving."

[anonymous]

i know. i just like turning things into statements i can defend more easily...

i love you rich. but the thing is that gift giving really doesn't have that much to do with the birth of jesus (at least not to me). which in essence is the base of the initial statement.

the idea was that the gift giving was not an initial inclusion to the true orthodox religion, and therefor poses as a guiltless act to partake in.

but i guess this can be argued either way depending on where you stand.

[amblinx1138]

Right. It all depends on how one defines what a gift at Christmas time represents. Typically, it can be viewed as a token of appreciation and good will toward others. This accounts for any type of celebration. Christians believe that Jesus was God's gift to the world in the form of his only son. A present at Christmas time represents the gifts that God has given us throughout life and a representation of Christ's golden rule; do unto others as you'd have done to you.

I don't want people to feel guilty for accepting gifts at Christmas even though they aren't Christian or don't believe in God. I just want them to realize that some people take it a little bit more seriously than the typical secular approach one often takes.