(Untitled)

[sebastianm]

Apropos of some of the other discussions we've had in the last few weeks, the New York Times this morning ran this story about college retention: "College Dropouts Cite Low Money and High Stress." None of the conclusions will be startling to anyone who has worked in Higher Education for the last decade and a half, but the picture it paints of how

Comments

[sensaes]

"In fact, more than a third of the dropouts said that even if they got a grant that covered their books and tuition, it would be hard to go back to school, given their work and family commitments."

Wrong-Way-Round syndrome?

Edit: Via my Inbox (and some chatter about the need for higher drop-out rates/fewer admissions), J. E. Ketz on today's Accountancy students...

"Compared with the students in the 1970s, today’s students are uneducated and unfit for a college education."

http://accounting.smartpros.com/x64268.xml

[coendou]

Interesting article. He does come off a little "back in MY day"ish at times, but also has a lot of good points and mentions a lot of things that sound very familiar.

Oddly, one reason that he's having to lower his expectations is that expectations at the high school level have been raised in some ways. In the 70s, not everyone took algebra. It was considered "advanced" math and only the smartest/highest achieving kids took it. I'm guessing that also translated into the algebra classes that were taught being more rigorous (whereas now there might be a separate honors algebra, back then algebra WAS honors, period). Now, many high schools require Algebra I and even Geometry for graduation. So now you have a situation where nearly all high school graduates have had the basics of algebra put in front of them, although they may have barely squeaked through the class with a D - which is arguably a good thing. But you also have a LOT more students who wouldn't have taken it at all before, who fumbled through an easier version with a B or so

[lostreality]

I like how at the end they blame the professors and are like "if the professors notice the students are struggling they should reach out to help" when clearly according to the findings, the students need MONEY, and no amount of "reaching out" by a professor is going to get them that money.

[korean_guy_01]

Take a hit in your already low pay!

[marybethorama]

Heh!

[coendou]

Yeah, the things the students want in the survey are evening/weekend classes, child care, and financial aid for part-time students. Professors have little to no control over any of that. I mean, they might be able to have some influence over class scheduling, but not a whole lot.

[knut_hamson]

Asked to rate 12 possible changes, the dropouts’ most popular solutions were allowing part-time students to qualify for financial aid, offering more courses on weekends and evenings, cutting costs and providing child care. The least popular were putting more classes online and making the college application process easier.

Of course, this won't stop people from thinking that online courses/programs are the way to solve the problem.

[knut_hamson]

That lack of discipline may have more to do with the faculty themselves than with the fact that their courses are not online.

[sensaes]

Sadly, some academics just can't handle the ego knock of being reduced to a talking head in a box on a monitor.

They'll learn...eventually.

[historychick49]

"If you try to leave a cellphone system, they almost won’t let you leave, and I just wonder if there’s something we need to think about in higher education,"

I'm not sure making it so much harder to leave college is such a good idea, though.

And while I agree that making the US "more competitive" is a good thing, doubling the number of graduates isn't the solution. We need to instead increase the students' knowledge and skill sets.

[libwitch]

thats what I was sort of thinking - I don't think forcing students to stay in who can't/don't want to/aren't motivated/have other priorities/whatever just to increase retention rates is doing anyone a favor. You can offer them help, but in the end, they either make it work or they don't...

[lucy_chronicles]

yep and not everyone should go to college.

we need more tech training programs in this country, apprenticeships and other forms of post-secondary education beyond University or community college.

I say this particularly as a former teacher - University level and secondary school.

[libwitch]

Oh, gods yes. And i think the idea of a gap year(s) needs to be encouraged more - by parents, counselors and the fin aid system. I can't tell you the number of friends I have that walked away from college after a year or two because they were expected to go - so they did - and they had no idea why they were there. But a few years later - after actually living - they realized what they wanted to go for. And they did quite well.

But there are just so many jobs out there that are currently requiring a degree that just don't need one. It stupid and crazy and so wasteful.

[rusleeping]

I thought the study was more interesting than the article.

Thanks for the link, sebastianm.