No, I don't think you're wrong. Biologically, once a man contributes his sperm, he's done. His choice comes in either deciding to use birth control, or choosing not to have sex. His body isn't involved in the production of a fetus, so he doesn't get a say over whether a woman he's impregnanted carries to term or not. He doesn't own the body of the woman, or the body of the fetus. If he's disturbed by the idea that a woman can get an abortion without his "permission," well, he'd better go out and get a vasectomy right quick so that there's no accidental pregnancies. Either that, or only date women who solemnly swear that they won't make reproductive choices without his input.
I mean, I guess I can see somewhat where he's coming from with men paying child support for kids they didn't want to begin with but I don't necessarily agree with that either.
The thing about child support is that it's his kid. If he's all verklempt over the idea of a woman aborting a fetus without his permission (which puts him in total control of her reproductive process, BTW), he should be THRILLED to pay child support to a child. After all, the woman didn't have an abortion, right? WHich is what he wants, apparently. The real question here is why men want to A) be in control of a woman's reproductive process and decide whether or not she bears a child (because if she's carrying the fetus, and his "say" is the important thing, he's making all the choices) AND B) be able to deny payments to support for an actual, real-life child that he fathered. If someone's pissed off that he doesn't get a "say" in an abortion, what he's really saying is that he's pissed off that a man can't force a woman to have an abortion or bring a pregnancy to term simply because he had an orgasm in her vagina.
I mean, I guess I can see somewhat where he's coming from with men paying child support for kids they didn't want to begin with but I don't necessarily agree with that either.
That's unfortunate biological reality. For a guy, his physical involvement (and therefore his choices) ends w/the sex. If his body were involved after that, he'd have more choices. The one he should be complaining to is G-d.
Furthermore, child support isn't owed to the mother, it's owed to the child. Frankly, I cannot understand the mindset of a person who would walk away from their own child, leaving the child without a parent (absent an adoption situation, of course, where the child is NOT left without a parent). But even if one were inclined to respect that choice, society has made the decision that a parent - even an unwilling parent - has an obligation to provide financial support for their offspring
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The bottom line is that, assuming the man and woman disagree on the abortion, it's either the woman's decision or the man's. Or in other words, you get to decide whether you're having an abortion, or HE gets to decide whether you're having an abortion.
Is it his position that HE should get to make the decision, and YOU should just be required to do whatever he decides?
Because in the end, that's the only thing "a say" can mean.
In my mind, people can have all the 'say' they want, but when it comes down to it the final decision (abortion or carrying to term) should be made by the person who is pregnant. No one is obligated to listen to views, let alone take them in to consideration -- sure, if you have a high risk pregnancy you could hear the doctor saying that they believe the best thing would be to abort because carrying to term has a high chance of killing you, but in the end you can still say that you'd continue the pregnancy. It's eighteen years of writing off a check or having money automatically taken away vs. nine months of pretty much giving your body over to another human, with all the effects and medical care that comes with it
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A lot of dudes think it's unfair that a woman gets to "opt out" of "parenting" via abortion, but they have no analagous way of opting out of parenting should their partner not choose abortion. This is true. Biology isn't fair.
The thing is, abortion isn't an alternative to parenting. It's an alternative to being pregnant. Men already exercise this by not being able to be pregnant.
"but they have no analagous way of opting out of parenting should their partner not choose abortion."
Well, they (man and women alike, but in this case especially the men) *do* have the choice to think about and use good contraception (i.e. using condoms or even combining them with temperature charting and abstinence on the few dangerous days if they really really want to be sure not to father a child).
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He doesn't own the body of the woman, or the body of the fetus. If he's disturbed by the idea that a woman can get an abortion without his "permission," well, he'd better go out and get a vasectomy right quick so that there's no accidental pregnancies. Either that, or only date women who solemnly swear that they won't make reproductive choices without his input.
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I mean, I guess I can see somewhat where he's coming from with men paying child support for kids they didn't want to begin with but I don't necessarily agree with that either.
Thank you :)
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The real question here is why men want to A) be in control of a woman's reproductive process and decide whether or not she bears a child (because if she's carrying the fetus, and his "say" is the important thing, he's making all the choices) AND B) be able to deny payments to support for an actual, real-life child that he fathered. If someone's pissed off that he doesn't get a "say" in an abortion, what he's really saying is that he's pissed off that a man can't force a woman to have an abortion or bring a pregnancy to term simply because he had an orgasm in her vagina.
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That's unfortunate biological reality. For a guy, his physical involvement (and therefore his choices) ends w/the sex. If his body were involved after that, he'd have more choices. The one he should be complaining to is G-d.
Furthermore, child support isn't owed to the mother, it's owed to the child. Frankly, I cannot understand the mindset of a person who would walk away from their own child, leaving the child without a parent (absent an adoption situation, of course, where the child is NOT left without a parent). But even if one were inclined to respect that choice, society has made the decision that a parent - even an unwilling parent - has an obligation to provide financial support for their offspring ( ... )
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The bottom line is that, assuming the man and woman disagree on the abortion, it's either the woman's decision or the man's. Or in other words, you get to decide whether you're having an abortion, or HE gets to decide whether you're having an abortion.
Is it his position that HE should get to make the decision, and YOU should just be required to do whatever he decides?
Because in the end, that's the only thing "a say" can mean.
And obviously, it's medieval and disgusting.
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A lot of dudes think it's unfair that a woman gets to "opt out" of "parenting" via abortion, but they have no analagous way of opting out of parenting should their partner not choose abortion. This is true. Biology isn't fair.
The thing is, abortion isn't an alternative to parenting. It's an alternative to being pregnant. Men already exercise this by not being able to be pregnant.
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Well, they (man and women alike, but in this case especially the men) *do* have the choice to think about and use good contraception (i.e. using condoms or even combining them with temperature charting and abstinence on the few dangerous days if they really really want to be sure not to father a child).
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