Chapter 24 - Sectumsempra

[cheeringcharm]

Harry tells Ron and Hermione about the horcruxes during charms. Ron is so astounded that he makes it snow which leads to the first time JKR uses a non-aggressive adverb in describing Hermione talking to Ron. SCORE! Of course, Lavender can tell that Hermione is talking "patiently" instead of snapping, berating, or otherwise belittling Ron and she

Comments

[cadesama]

You know, Harry wouldn't have to rely on the Prince's spell to prevent eavesdropping if the Order had decided to train him up on some spells that might be helpful to a Chosen One.

"Ron looked immensely guilty and turned his back on her." -- Emphasis mine. I never really sympathized with Lavender before this moment when Ron is acting like an utter cad. Doesn't help that Ron was terrible to her the whole book. Argh, sorry, this whole scene sums up why I dislike the treatment of romance in this book. Everyone is just so petty and caught up with what they want, never mind who else might get hurt

[pilly2009]

so, that may be when Ginny did make a choice in the matter. She apparently chose that keeping her secrets from Harry was more important than the lives of students.

Another really good point, one I can't believe I haven't even considered before. There is a bit too much that we don't know (and at this point, are unlikely to never find out). I saw a fanfiction once that suitably explained Ginny's reasons for stealing back the diary, one of which being that she didn't want the same thing that happened to her to happen to Harry. Which, considering Harry's susceptibility to any personification of an older male figure to fill the role of father (ie, the HBP book), wasn't entirely unlikely, and would explain at least part of Tom's fury with Ginny for stealing back the diary. (For everything he said about wanting to find out more about Harry, the one session of interaction they had before the Chamber was all about Tom's making Harry trust him, as he had made Ginny trust him.)

[cadesama]

It's possible that Harry would have been influenced in the same way, although I think that it's really more contigent on what Riddle wanted him for than how Harry is vulnerable. Riddle didn't care one whit about Ginny, so he used her and wanted to dispose of her. Riddle did care about Harry. He was fascinated and obsessed. And while I think he very much wanted Harry dead, I think that he would have wanted to kill Harry in a duel, or something that put them on even ground. He wants Harry to know who killed him, and this is the same boy who grew into the Voldemort of GoF.

Which is really totally beside the point. Ginny stole the book back and then wrote in it again. I don't think that wanting to keep Harry from being possessed explains the second part. The only way I can explain it without blaming Ginny is if we assume that the diary was addictive in some way, but that's still an extra-textual explanation. From the text it seems to be laid out straightforwardly that she stole it because she didn't want Harry to know her

[pilly2009]

You know, Harry wouldn't have to rely on the Prince's spell to prevent eavesdropping if the Order had decided to train him up on some spells that might be helpful to a Chosen One.

Maybe this was Dumbledore's instructing the Order not to treat Harry like a Chosen One? There is still a lot of attention paid to the fact that Harry is still a student.

too busy defending himself and gushing over GinnyDefending the HBP, actually; he acknowledges that he doesn't deserve Ginny's defense

[cadesama]

Well, it if was part of Dumbledore's orders, that just proves once again how useless and hypocritical his orders are. What's the use of giving Harry special knowledge about Voldemort and his role in the war, if you aren't going to give him the means to keep it secret? Dumbledore himself treats Harry like the Chosen One, but never gives him the tools to succeed.

he acknowledges that he doesn't deserve Ginny's defense.

Yeah, but he's all glowy inside.

Hermione's been to nearly every Quidditch event we've seen in the books, has supported (and even aided in) every Quidditch endeavor and/or success that her friends have been involved in, despite not understanding either the game or the importance that is placed on it. Which is why Ginny came off as cruel rather than kick-ass in this scene.

I think Ginny's comment was out of line and below the belt, but I don't think Hermione had been very consistent about Quidditch since OotP. Before, yes, she was very supportive of the boys and seemed to enjoy each game. In OotP, though, she make

[pilly2009]

What's the use of giving Harry special knowledge about Voldemort and his role in the war, if you aren't going to give him the means to keep it secret? Dumbledore himself treats Harry like the Chosen One, but never gives him the tools to succeed.

This I can't explain. At all. Unless I prematurely assume that Dumbledore died before he was completely finished with Harry. I can't understand why Dumbledore did not have Harry pick up Occlumency again in HBP, either -- perhaps he was placing too much hope on the assumption that Voldemort would keep his mind locked to Harry for fear of the boy seeing his future plans or whatever. But this is a dangerous assumption; Voldemort wouldn't even need a two minute trip into Harry's mind before he realizes that Harry is after the Horcruxes.

But Dumbledore places so much emphasis on not believing the 'Chosen One' rumours and the prophecies, so I just assumed he told the Order to do the same.

Yeah, but he's all glowy inside.
Well, I think it's possible to feel touched that someone thinks you worth

[cadesama]

But this is a dangerous assumption; Voldemort wouldn't even need a two minute trip into Harry's mind before he realizes that Harry is after the Horcruxes.

Yup, but let's assume that Voldemort is so turned off of entering Harry's mind that he never does it again. Dumbledore has known since Christmas that Bellatrix is a Legilimens, and there's no reason to think that she would have any qualms about entering Harry's mind.

Well, I think it's possible to feel touched that someone thinks you worth defending, even while acknowledging that you don't deserve the justification. And I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with feeling that way.I think it depends on the degree of the crime. It's certainly very touching to know that your friends are with you when you get detention for mouthing off to the teacher -- in fact, I've always disliked how Hermione would rather upbraid her friends than stand by them for such obviously minor infractions. If your friends stand by you for an attempted murder, over which you feel very guilty,

[schtroumph_c]

Everyone is just so petty and caught up with what they want, never mind who else might get hurt.

...like teenagers?

[cadesama]

I'm sorry, but by the time you are a teenager you ought to have a moral framwork. You may not always live up to it, but that doesn't mean it's okay not to. You fail and you get punished and hopefully you do better. I don't like seeing these kids act like horrible people with no consequences.

I think I'll take the atypical teen, thanks

[cheeringcharm]

I'm sorry, but by the time you are a teenager you ought to have a moral framwork.

Here, here.

The 'they're just acting like teenagers' is the biggest insult to the millions of teens in the world that don't act like self absorbed brats. Sure, some teens act like that, but not all. The fact that JKR makes all of her teens into stereotypical cardboard cutouts, using the wost possible behavior as a template, just shows what a horrible charactarizer she is. It also shows a great disdain for teenagers. Of course it's all wrapped up in her definition of true love, so the vast majority doesn't see past it, nor does JKR if her farce of an interview is any gauge.

Where are the consequences? Where are the, dare I say, atypical teens? Why aren't they represented? Or maybe they are in the two people that have the least amount of page time and are painted as such friendless losers that they carry a coin around with them ready for the call of the only friends they've ever truly had. Luna and Neville deserve better. Teenagers deserve better.

Re: I think I'll take the atypical teen, thanks

[rainfletcher]

Wow. Rock and roll, CC.

The whole Just Acting Like Real Teenagers thing bugs me, too. These are supposed to be atypical teens -- they're the frigging heroes of the story! I said this elsewhere: I'm fine with my heroes being flawed, but I'm liable to get turned off when my heroes start acting like complete asshats, and that line was crossed in a big way.

Much love for the friendless losers.

[woman_ironing]

"Ron looked immensely guilty and turned his back on her." ... I never really sympathized with Lavender before this moment when Ron is acting like an utter cad...Argh, sorry, this whole scene sums up why I dislike the treatment of romance in this book. Everyone is just so petty and caught up with what they want, never mind who else might get hurt.

All's fair in love and war! And they're teenagers. It seems rather truthful - God, many teenagers are infinitely worse! - and it's an object lesson in how not to behave

[cadesama]

and it's an object lesson in how not to behave.

And I could take it that way, if I thought that was all it was meant to be. I just resent that JKR is trying to parody romance, make it "realistic", and endear it to us all at the same time. It just doesn't work for me. I prefer liking the character in books I read.

RoR storeroom: Maybe Tom Riddle found info on horcruxes amongst the banned books?

Would that be interesting or just sad? I mean, then the whole banning books thing would have legitimacy. On the other hand, they'd be handstrung themselves because the books were banned.

I've always enjoyed reading it but I'm sure it's v. difficult to write time and time again.

Same here, but this time it just seems like her heart wasn't in it. I was looking forward to Quidditch being Harry's normal thing, his one touchstone to Hogwarts life, in HBP and I really don't think it was at all. JKR seems dismissive of it, and I think that diminished Harry's own actions in the game.

[woman_ironing]

Well, it is sad, but I suppose not being so bothered about Quidditch is the first step to Harry leaving Hogwarts behind. And Quidditch just isn't the same without Malfoy, who's also got more serious things to occupy him.

[cadesama]

Sure, it's a step to leaving it behind. But is that an entirely good thing? You could just as easily say that missing your senior prom is way of leaving high school behind, but that doesn't mean it's necessary to actually leaving. Quidditch was something that made Harry happy, and I wanted to see him have a few more happy memories from it.

[psychic_serpent]

Although flying and Quidditch make Harry happy, it's good not to lose track of the use to which JKR has put games of various types in the books. They are usually used as metaphors for war, from chess to a simple thing like the first flying lesson (Harry trying to get the Remembrall from Malfoy was like a mini-Quidditch match between two Seekers) to Quidditch itself to the Triwizard Tournament. While she has occasionally had the battle metaphor turn real--such as the life-sized chess game they Trio had to play to get to the Stone in the first book--the apotheosis of this came in the fourth book, when Harry and Cedric's taking the cup together transported them into a REAL war--and resulted in Cedric's death. I believe that her use of game as metaphorical war is also why Harry's life had to be threatened by Quirrell in the context of a Quidditch match; it was another case of the metaphorical war becoming all too real