Let's dip back down into the depraved, shall we?

[4ofspades]

daylight_broke  posed an excellent question in rancid_rainbow 's journal, and I would love to know everyone's opinions:

If the Joker is looking to "relax with his thoughts"... erm... in the manner that usually only requires one hand (ahem), what thoughts do you think would go through his mind?  No holds barred, get as descriptive as you want.

There's the perverted musing for

Comments

[darker_she_said]

I'm going to type hurriedly because I'm due in World of Warcraft in about thirty minutes, but I just couldn't help responding to this. I might even come back after thinking on it some more. I really love to discuss the "ifs" of the Joker's psyche. (AND OMFG, I am sooo sorry this is so long and probably makes no sense

[4ofspades]

*Fantastic* response, and you definitely didn't make me cry. To the contrary, this is exactly the type of detailed musing I was hoping readers would be brave enough to offer, so thank you

[darker_she_said]

I officially love you for this entry. ♥

:/ I was going to try and offer more about things men and women value differently, but you've worded it far more articulately than I can so there's nothing to add. lol I have to say I enjoy any kind of scene where there is a pull between two characters like that - especially if it isn't spoken, and omg, in black and white was the best, like The Lady in Cement.

But yes back to Joker. I think sex and anything sexual is on his grocery list right next to the toilet paper and toothpaste. That's not to say he doesn't joke about it, hint, or things like that - especially if he knows it will bother someone - but I just don't see him pursuing the physical activity without a reason. Teach a lesson. Torment a third party. All that good stuff. The instance of him actually seeking pleasure would be after he had (without a doubt) nothing else to do, or for some reason absolutely needed to (close combat has its disadvantages xD

[4ofspades]

Awwww, you are sweet for saying such kind words. Thank you! Know that you've got fellow Joker-lovin' friends here. It's always cool to find fan who expresses herself with mastery and passion. You'll find some kindreds among the others who are replying to this post

[lauralot]

I need to get some sort of pensive icon.

I agree with darker_she_said, that Batman's got to figure into the mix somewhere, even if he isn't the sole focus of the Joker's one-handed thoughts. I also imagine that he has been the main focus on more than occasion

[darker_she_said]

Joker's mind blasting from one topic to the next in a matter of miliseconds
YES. That's why I believe his thoughts would weigh very heavily on events that took place that day, in addition to deep-seeded desires and issues he has.
I also agree with you about his need to be in control and remember points in time where he has power over people. I think it's very possible that he might watch videos of himself while he masturbates, also - or maybe media footage simply talking about him - just to have that background noise filling the mental empowerment gap while he fantasizes.

[4ofspades]

"I think it's very possible that he might watch videos of himself while he masturbates, also - or maybe media footage simply talking about him - just to have that background noise filling the mental empowerment gap while he fantasizes."

TOTALLY agree here. Coincidentally, there's a work-in-progress fan fiction I'm writing about the Joker, entitled "Not Playing with a Full Deck", in which I actually wrote this into the story. The the Joker is tearing Gotham apart, but the damage is being carried out by his henchmen. He's tucked away safely back at his base of operation, and he's got two televisions on, so he can treat himself (and his hostage) to incessant footage of evidence of his power. He channel-surfs whenever the media goes off-topic, so he can watch footage that relates directly to him. The televisions are left on, as something louder than just white noise, to serve as a constant reminder of his hold on the city.

[4ofspades]

Your metaphors cracked me up, and were right on the mark in describing his mercurial attention span. The comparison to the Stargate sequence in 2001 was a fantastic analogy, like watching a rotoscope shooting images of unrelated and/or nonsequential events onto a screen. (And for the record, those "sublymonal" ads by Sprite made me want to avoid that product like the plague.) Too weird

[daylight_broke]

My serious answer:

I agree with everything darker-she-said and lauralot said about how Batman would definitely have to be prominent in the Joker's sex fantasies (even though Batman may not be portrayed in a sexual way within those fantasies) and that at the moment of climax, the Joker is probably involuntarily flashing images of violence through his mind. The violent images could include memories of the times he stabbed or beat someone to death

[darker_she_said]

I agree with you here that it is the suffering and the emotional turmoil - not the weapon - that does it. And it would need to be genuine to be arousing for him.

and I LOL'd at Joker's dildo. I scared the shit out of my sleeping guinea pigs.

[daylight_broke]

@ darker-she-said: You mentioned in a conversation above with 4ofspades that you wrote a story featuring the Joker talking to his mama. Did you publish it on Fanfiction.net? I would love to read it.

I thought the screencap of Gordon rescuing Batman from the threat of being penetrated with the Joker's dildo was appropriate and semi-lulzy. I don't think the Joker would actually sexually penetrate the Batman or anybody with his knife handle though (I could be wrong though). But he would definitely threaten to do it because he would enjoy seeing the fear and panic in people's eyes at the thought of being sexually assaulted with a knife handle. He does enjoy mindfucking with people.

Aww, I love guinea pigs. They are adorable.

[daylight_broke]

@ darker-she-said: Forgot to add: Sometimes I think the Joker would use a knife handle as a sex toy. But sometimes I argue with myself and say, "Hell nah! Joker is not the type that would use a foreign object as a sex toy on his victims." I confuse myself sometimes.

[4ofspades]

"I'm also of the opinion he's not going to be affected by some chick trying to be sexy."

You just hit the nail on the head, when it comes to identifying one my pet peeves when I browse the Fan Fiction boards. About 90% of the stories now posted in the BB/TDK section are Joker-centric, and about 90% of *those* are the inconceivable and (usually) horrifically written, formulaic "Joker sees girl, Joker takes girl, Joker falls in love with girl" crap.

As I mentioned in my initial reply to darker_she_said, the Joker is not a common man who can be swayed by the wiles of a woman, no matter how beautiful she is. He has an agenda, all the time. Any sexual activity he actually engages in usually serves the ulterior motive of establishing himself as the one holding the power, either through subjugation, humiliation or physical intimidation. The majority of the FF stories make me cringe, as they're thinly-veiled sexual fantasies of the authors themselves, living vicariously through their Mary Sue of choice

[daylight_broke]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Please don't stop writing new fic to be posted in public! I loved reading your fanfic stories BECAUSE you perfectly captured the Joker as creepy and abusive. Despite the fact that I'm attracted to TDK!Joker, he still scares the bejesus out of me because he truly is creepy and abusive.

Did your critics expect the Joker to fall in love with his victims (bad fanfic theme mentioned by 4ofspades) in your fanfic stories? I'm laughing so hard right now at the thought of the psychopath Joker falling in love with his victims. LOL! Oh my god. LOLOLOL!

[crystalstars_88]

The Joker's scar story about having a wife, while most likely untrue, does remind me that he is a man, and he must have some kind of sexual urges. Behind the costume, makeup, theatrics, and terrifying persona is a human man. While he is an extraordinary person, he goes through the ordinary human functions of eating, pissing, and whacking off

[4ofspades]

You raise a very good point about theatrics and the perception of sexual orientation

[lauralot]

I take it your coworker missed the scenes with the women Jack had presumably been involved with slapping him.

I've noticed a trend (not in this thread, but in life in general) of deciding a character is gay based on a few traits and then refusing to let go of that interpretation. Which isn't technically bad--everyone can have their own interpretation--but I find all too often that the reasons come down to silly things like "acts weird" or "is friends with another man."

It also makes me wonder why no one ever takes bisexuality into account. If I were to slash Jack Sparrow, my Jack Sparrow would be bi, because I think the movie provides sufficent subtext to say that he's slept with women of his own volition.

[4ofspades]

Excellent point! Why do characters have to be either straight or gay? Why is bisexuality either overlooked or disregarded? Truthfully, if I were to create a omnipotent villain, I'd make him bisexual. Then *everyone* is a potential sexual target. It makes a villain more of a wildcard, and harder to predict. Either that, or I'd make them completely asexual, so that there would be no chance of victims currying favor through sexual promises.