Tag Set reopened

[hhertzof]

The tag set has been reopened for vetting. As it was unclear which problems should go in the form, the form will remain closed and all problems should be noted in the comments of this post

Comments

[not_unwise]

Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Fantastic 4, Ultimate X-Men and The Ultimates have all be merged into "Marvel Ultimates" even though they're all separate series with different characters and different readers. This startles me because it's generally understood that comic book series are separate, and things that overlap like Batgirl and Red Robin were still left separate after being nominated separately

[grey_bard]

Seconded. Marvel Ultimates is a very specific comic. A very NSFW comic with canon cannibalism by a major character. Ultimate Spider-man is safe for kids and stars a thirteen year old. Fans of one are generally a different group than fans of the other. Ideally they should not be merged. If you really feel you must merge them, may I suggest the title-neutral official Marvel name for that universe - the Marvel Ultimate Universe?

[nopejr]

I was about to post this exact same thing.

[dudski]

This. As I said in the previous post: If I hadn't nommed UC:SM myself and seen the changes that were made to my nom, I wouldn't have any idea characters like Miles and Ganke were even in this year, because there's no reason anyone would think to look for them under Marvel Ultimates

[faithgrowsold]

Sixthing? As someone who only has interest in the Ult Spider-man comics, I really do think they should be split up again into their separate comics (the way you encouraged us to do in the first place), but at the very least change the tag from Marvel Ultimates to "Marvel Ultimateverse" like not_unwise suggested. The way it is now makes absolutely no sense no matter how you look at it.

[jenn_calaelen]

The two fandoms nominated were Spiderman Ultimates and Marvel Ultimates. A lot of the characters nominated in Spiderman Ultimateverse did not appear in that series, but did appear in the wider Marvel Ultimates, so we decided to merge the fandoms rather than reject most of the characters.

Renaming the fandom would be a lot of work as all the characters would need to be manually re-associated, but if there is another name people agree on it can be done.

[dudski]

Given the characters nominated, I don't see how most of them would have been subject to rejection under Spider-Man (Ultimateverse).

Aaron, Ganke, Gwen, Jefferson, Jessica, Judge, Kate, Maria, Mary Jane, May, Miles, Rio, Tandy, and Ty - 14 of the 22 characters currently under "Marvel Ultimates" - are all inarguably valid Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) characters.

Of the remaining eight, none are primarily from Spider-Man titles, but Johnny made a huge number of appearances in Ultimate Spider-Man titles, Carol and Susan made more than a handful, Janet seems to have made a few, and Monica and Sam both appeared in UC:SM when Miles briefly teamed up with the Ultimates last year. The only characters who, as far as I can tell, have never appeared in an Ultimateverse Spider-Man title are Wanda and Pietro

[nomadicwriter]

If Character A has made 15 appearances in Ultimate Spider-Man titles and 200 appearances in Ultimateverse titles overall, offering them in a merged/umbrella fandom requires a significantly larger canon knowledge than offering them in the originally nominated fandom would have.That's an extremely good point. For instance, Johnny Storm has had a significant number of appearances in Ultimate Spider-Man, but prior to that he was one of the main cast in the Ultimate Fantastic Four comic. If the fandom is widened from Ultimate Spider-Man to including every single Ultimate Universe comic ever published, then somebody could quite reasonably request a story based on Johnny's role in Ultimate Fantastic Four - a comic that nobody actually nominated, and that people planning to offer to write Johnny in the Ultimate Spider-Man fandom are likely to be completely unfamiliar with

[penknife]

I think you're still under the misapprehension that Marvel Ultimates is an umbrella fandom including Ultimate Spider-Man. Ultimates is an individual title, like Ultimate Spider-Man; it's the Ultimateverse equivalent of the Avengers. If you want a wider fandom that icludes Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimates, you're going to have to go with something like Ultimateverse, Marvel Ultimate Universe, or Ultimate Marvel Comics.

But as people have explained, Ult Spider-Man and Ultimates are best separated, because the tones are extremely different, and many people may want to offer characters based on having read only one of these books.

[penknife]

Yeah, I think that is by far the best solution; I'm just saying, if they have to be merged into one fandom, it absolutely can't be called Marvel Ultimates. But, yeah, there are plenty of comic book titles set in the mainstream Marvel or DC universes that are nominated separately, so I don't see why these need to be merged.

[nomadicwriter]

With all respect, your reasoning for this merge contains several glaring factual inaccuracies, and the decision hence comes off nonsensical to anyone with actual familiarity with the fandoms in question. There is no "wider Marvel Ultimates". You seem to be treating "Marvel Ultimates" (a specific individual series within the wider Ultimate Universe) as synonymous with the whole of the Ultimate Universe. This is not correct.

To be clear: the wider fandom in this case is the Marvel Ultimate Universe. The nominated characters belong to two separate subfandoms: Marvel Ultimates (this is the Ultimate Universe version of the Avengers) and Ultimate Spider-Man. You cannot merge Ultimate Spider-Man into Marvel Ultimates, because it is not a subfandom of that series. They are separate parallel comics that take place in the same universe. It's the equivalent of merging Spider-Man into Avengers and calling the resulting blend of characters from two separate series "Avengers

[dayadhvam_triad]

There is no "wider Marvel Ultimates." Period. Spider-Man (Ultimateverse) is not a subset of Marvel Ultimates: they are separate parallel titles altogether. The commenters above have also explained in great detail how this is so.

Even if renaming the fandom is a lot of work, I would think that simple factual accuracy is a major and valid reason for doing so.

[pottedseafood]

With all due respect, since these two fandoms were conflated by mistake, it would seem to be more sensible to fix the error, not to tell participants their nominations were wrong or that they cannot understand their own fandoms.

[faithgrowsold]

Once more +1-ing everyone else comments here

[ladyshinkicker]

With all due respect, there is no such thing as "the wider Marvel Ultimates". That is not a thing which exists, because Marvel Ultimates is one title and Ultimate Spider-Man is a different title.