I'm not okay with how Caroline acted last episode, but not because she's vocally anti-Damon. I get that. Damon mind-controlled and physically and sexually abused her in season one, so it makes sense that Caroline would not be okay with her best friend entering a relationship with him. What I mostly disapprove of is how she's shoving Stefan at Elena and says, "you're soulmates, you have to be together". I think for a friend telling another friend that guy X is wrong for them is perfectly normal, but pushing the friend into a relationship that they just quit is NOT OKAY. Especially because Caroline knows what Stefan is capable of and knows that, while he may or may not be better than Damon, he is by no means a 'perfect' choice or someone who can ensure that Elena has the normal life Caroline thinks Elena wants/needs
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This was why I didn't raise the Caroline-is-anti-Damon argument because that is a fact and it's well justified and I've explored it often enough!
What I mostly disapprove of is how she's shoving Stefan at Elena and says, "you're soulmates, you have to be together".
I have no explanation for this, honestly, because there IS no explanation for this; it's what I was trying to say, that it's inbuilt in the premise of the show, it has to be the Salvatores. I rage against it often and I am constantly annoyed with the ~triangle business, and this sire-bond business is ALSO because they want more triangle leverage, but since it's the premise, I have to accept it. Which means that I have to accept everything that comes with it; which is, that if not Stefan, it HAS to be Damon; there's no logic to it, but it's constantly what is held by the show. Caroline will never be allowed to go 'hey let's ditch them both' (and in fact she has talked about ditching Stefan too; Caroline was the first person to tell Elena to move on from Stefan in Season 3
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I agree with everything you said, especially how it makes not much sense for Caroline's friends to not object to the way she's putting herself in danger by fake-dating someone who has shown in the past that he has no qualms of killing anyone who crosses him.
But beside the fact that I think that Caroline using Klaus's attraction for her to distract him is a monumentally bad idea and will likely not end well for anyone, I can see why she's doing it. I can also see why she'd be charmed by him and / or flattered by the attention he gives her. I understand why he makes her smile.
What I don't understand is how she can rant to him about Elena's choices. That's the point where I think she crossed a line. I mean, as someone who still ships Klaus/Elena to some degree, of course I enjoy seeing them in the same scene or hearing him comment on Elena's involvement with the Salvatore brothers, but from Caroline's POV, this makes no sense. Klaus has repeatedly threated, abused and at one time killed Elena. Caroline talking to him about Elena's
( ... )
You know that's a very, very good point, and I agree with that; that is a breach of trust, the closest I can come up with is that it was closest thought in her mind and Klaus had already heard everything and Caroline, unlike Elena and Bonnie, is ridiculously expressive, it's why she keeps thwarting Klaus and purposely saying things that could get her killed, because she basically says all the wrong things at all the wrong times ever-- and of course, the show needed a way to plant the whole sire-idea in Caroline's head via Klaus, so that rendered a discussion necessary; lol, this show.
YOUR KLAUS/ELENA SHIPPING IS A+++ SIR, every time they're in the frame together, I think of you :D
I have nothing to add, really. I'm so mad that the show reduced what could've been an extremely interesting conflict to, well, what they reduced it to :(. WE COULD'VE HAD IT ALL!
Meh, larger D/E fandom. Opinions about it, I have them.
ETA: Hold on, I did find a minor thing to disagree with ;). I think there actually is a good reason for Elena to end up at the Salvatores when it turns out she can't be near Jeremy? She's just had a big fight with Caroline, and she's tired, she wouldn't want to get into another fight (even if there is a chance Caroline wouldn't try to fight in a situation like this, Elena expects the worst). Bonnie would be the best option, but, as we see from Elena's hallucination in 4x06, Elena is subconsciously convinced that Bonnie hates her; she's too ashamed to ask for Bonnie's help. Elena could also move in to Alaric's now empty loft, only after just being "rejected" by her only remaining family members, the idea of staying anywhere alone is just too terrifying.
THIS SHOW IS THE WORST. And now that it's villianizing Caroline, and making her out to be the bitchy, horrible friend, it's making me very mad.
Also, larger DE fandom, oh my god, how do people opinions? D:
I suppose I found it odd because obviously there is just as much, if not more emotional baggage with Stefan and Damon, as there is with Caroline and Bonnie. I'm pretty sure she's convinced Stefan hates her too, and living with both him and Damon, especially at this time, must also be both taxing and awkward. And in the preview, it does kind of seem like they didn't really take the girls' fight as a 'fight', because they seem fine. Which was also what was actually good about the episode in fact; that when they were on stage, AFTER the fight, giving the crown away, they were genuinely smiling at each other. So the way that I read it was that Elena got sick of Caroline's attitude (which, who wouldn't, it WAS over-the-top), but she understands it, and so she was all "fine bye, you're being mean
( ... )
Today I finally managed to start thinking about the sire bond thing outside of what larger D/E fandom managed to put in my head, and all of a sudden I'm about five times less disgusted with this idea.
You have a point. But then, I also understand why, in a spur of the moment, Elena wanted to go to Damon (and to Damon-friend, not to Damon-lover). It's childish and possibly irrational, but notice how the whole episode everyone but Damon (=Stefan, Caroline, Jeremy) yells at her. She was exhausted, she felt rejected, she made an emotional decision to go to the person who didn't yell at her. In the morning, after she caught a breath and got a boost of self-confidence, she was able to put the fight with Caroline behind her, but the previous night? She wanted someone she knew won't fight her.
GOOD, you know what, I'm significantly less mad about everything too, except fandom; the episode and even Caroline and Stefan and the sire-bond don't seem quite so terrible to me now, because I can understand where it's coming from.
I can understand that too really, and I agree with that, but there's so many times that it's just basically contrived so that everyone remains limited by their love interests; Caro with Klaus and Tyler and Elena with Stefan and Damon and Bonnie nowhere maybe because she doesn't have a love interest (THIS HASN'T STRUCK ME BEFORE, BUT OH MY GOD, SHOW, I HOPE IT ISN'T THAT), so I'm just cynical about it now D:
Yeah. On the one hand, I am really glad there's a critical mass of fandom with a very low tolerance for policing of Elena's decisions, because she's a young woman in a position which exposes her to a lot of it. On the other hand, words like "judgment" actually have specific meanings past "failure to be completely, tactfully affirming of someone Choosing Her Choices."
Elena is acting 'compelled'; the same way that she remembers acting; with the look of adoration and agreeing with him; and as a vampire she can't be compelled, the nearest correlative is 'sired'....if one of those real and hypothetical friends I've been mentioning in this post suddenly said they liked the red dress because their boyfriend liked the red dress, even though moments before they'd said they liked the blue, then that would send alarm signals ringing. Yes. YES. It is absolutely eerie. It's eerie even with the omniscient audience POV. Even if his intentions are pure (lol) and Elena is completely self-confident and comfortable and in control of her new life (no
( ... )
And the reason it's easy to jump to this conclusion is because the in-text characters (Bonnie, Caroline, etc.) do not have the omniscient outsider perspective. All they know about Elena's relationship with Damon is what Elena chooses to reveal to them. And Elena doesn't choose to reveal much on the Damon-front and actively appears to hide Stefan's awful behavior and her real feelings about both of them, because she herself believes (believed) that her feelings aren't "right", that there's something wrong with her for wanting Damon.
This point was a friggen' revelation to me. You are so right; Bonnie and Caroline are limited by Elena's biased presentation of her feelings for the brothers.
I don't have much more to say. Good luck on your exams!
The whole point of being a friend is that you are allowed to be absolutely, completely irrational about terrible life choices you think your friend is making. WORD TO YOUR MOTHER. I mean seriously, idgi. That's just what you do. I doesn't mean that said friends is going to listen to you (hell if I did) but that's just what you do. Because you care and worry and ugh, I don't even understand how this is something that even needs to be established. Like, what is it with people and friendships-where-one-party-always-nods-in-agreement-because-that's-being-a-good-friend. The worst. Caroline is not Elena's minion. She's not here to blindly support her every decision ffs. That is not what friends do. Plus, it's not even as if Caroline was being purposefully anti-supportive, she is voicing her concern. Considering how many times the dickish bros took away Elena's agency and acted against her wishes, instead of sharing their opinion and leaving her to her own choices, I think fandom should really get some perspective regarding who Elena's bad
( ... )
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What I mostly disapprove of is how she's shoving Stefan at Elena and says, "you're soulmates, you have to be together".
I have no explanation for this, honestly, because there IS no explanation for this; it's what I was trying to say, that it's inbuilt in the premise of the show, it has to be the Salvatores. I rage against it often and I am constantly annoyed with the ~triangle business, and this sire-bond business is ALSO because they want more triangle leverage, but since it's the premise, I have to accept it. Which means that I have to accept everything that comes with it; which is, that if not Stefan, it HAS to be Damon; there's no logic to it, but it's constantly what is held by the show. Caroline will never be allowed to go 'hey let's ditch them both' (and in fact she has talked about ditching Stefan too; Caroline was the first person to tell Elena to move on from Stefan in Season 3 ( ... )
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But beside the fact that I think that Caroline using Klaus's attraction for her to distract him is a monumentally bad idea and will likely not end well for anyone, I can see why she's doing it. I can also see why she'd be charmed by him and / or flattered by the attention he gives her. I understand why he makes her smile.
What I don't understand is how she can rant to him about Elena's choices. That's the point where I think she crossed a line. I mean, as someone who still ships Klaus/Elena to some degree, of course I enjoy seeing them in the same scene or hearing him comment on Elena's involvement with the Salvatore brothers, but from Caroline's POV, this makes no sense. Klaus has repeatedly threated, abused and at one time killed Elena. Caroline talking to him about Elena's ( ... )
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YOUR KLAUS/ELENA SHIPPING IS A+++ SIR, every time they're in the frame together, I think of you :D
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I have nothing to add, really. I'm so mad that the show reduced what could've been an extremely interesting conflict to, well, what they reduced it to :(. WE COULD'VE HAD IT ALL!
Meh, larger D/E fandom. Opinions about it, I have them.
ETA: Hold on, I did find a minor thing to disagree with ;). I think there actually is a good reason for Elena to end up at the Salvatores when it turns out she can't be near Jeremy? She's just had a big fight with Caroline, and she's tired, she wouldn't want to get into another fight (even if there is a chance Caroline wouldn't try to fight in a situation like this, Elena expects the worst). Bonnie would be the best option, but, as we see from Elena's hallucination in 4x06, Elena is subconsciously convinced that Bonnie hates her; she's too ashamed to ask for Bonnie's help. Elena could also move in to Alaric's now empty loft, only after just being "rejected" by her only remaining family members, the idea of staying anywhere alone is just too terrifying.
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THIS SHOW IS THE WORST. And now that it's villianizing Caroline, and making her out to be the bitchy, horrible friend, it's making me very mad.
Also, larger DE fandom, oh my god, how do people opinions? D:
I suppose I found it odd because obviously there is just as much, if not more emotional baggage with Stefan and Damon, as there is with Caroline and Bonnie. I'm pretty sure she's convinced Stefan hates her too, and living with both him and Damon, especially at this time, must also be both taxing and awkward. And in the preview, it does kind of seem like they didn't really take the girls' fight as a 'fight', because they seem fine. Which was also what was actually good about the episode in fact; that when they were on stage, AFTER the fight, giving the crown away, they were genuinely smiling at each other. So the way that I read it was that Elena got sick of Caroline's attitude (which, who wouldn't, it WAS over-the-top), but she understands it, and so she was all "fine bye, you're being mean ( ... )
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You have a point. But then, I also understand why, in a spur of the moment, Elena wanted to go to Damon (and to Damon-friend, not to Damon-lover). It's childish and possibly irrational, but notice how the whole episode everyone but Damon (=Stefan, Caroline, Jeremy) yells at her. She was exhausted, she felt rejected, she made an emotional decision to go to the person who didn't yell at her. In the morning, after she caught a breath and got a boost of self-confidence, she was able to put the fight with Caroline behind her, but the previous night? She wanted someone she knew won't fight her.
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I can understand that too really, and I agree with that, but there's so many times that it's just basically contrived so that everyone remains limited by their love interests; Caro with Klaus and Tyler and Elena with Stefan and Damon and Bonnie nowhere maybe because she doesn't have a love interest (THIS HASN'T STRUCK ME BEFORE, BUT OH MY GOD, SHOW, I HOPE IT ISN'T THAT), so I'm just cynical about it now D:
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Elena is acting 'compelled'; the same way that she remembers acting; with the look of adoration and agreeing with him; and as a vampire she can't be compelled, the nearest correlative is 'sired'....if one of those real and hypothetical friends I've been mentioning in this post suddenly said they liked the red dress because their boyfriend liked the red dress, even though moments before they'd said they liked the blue, then that would send alarm signals ringing. Yes. YES. It is absolutely eerie. It's eerie even with the omniscient audience POV. Even if his intentions are pure (lol) and Elena is completely self-confident and comfortable and in control of her new life (no ( ... )
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This point was a friggen' revelation to me. You are so right; Bonnie and Caroline are limited by Elena's biased presentation of her feelings for the brothers.
I don't have much more to say. Good luck on your exams!
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WORD TO YOUR MOTHER. I mean seriously, idgi. That's just what you do. I doesn't mean that said friends is going to listen to you (hell if I did) but that's just what you do. Because you care and worry and ugh, I don't even understand how this is something that even needs to be established. Like, what is it with people and friendships-where-one-party-always-nods-in-agreement-because-that's-being-a-good-friend. The worst. Caroline is not Elena's minion. She's not here to blindly support her every decision ffs. That is not what friends do. Plus, it's not even as if Caroline was being purposefully anti-supportive, she is voicing her concern. Considering how many times the dickish bros took away Elena's agency and acted against her wishes, instead of sharing their opinion and leaving her to her own choices, I think fandom should really get some perspective regarding who Elena's bad ( ... )
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