The Vampire Diaries: Metanarratives and the Effects of Framing in the Process of Interpretation

[youcallitwinter]

This arose from a discussion that wheatear, cranmers, and ishi_chan had on the previous 3x20 (non) reaction post, and also many other discussions on the same topic, that I just found fascinating and wanted to contribute to, and then it just turned into this horrifying thing and I cannot even with my life anymore. /fml (But then again, I’m doing a paper on text and the

Comments

[wheatear]

/APPLAUSE

Yes. Spot-on. Thank you for this post; it is a thing of beauty.

This sort of framing is exactly what was horrifying about Damon/Andie.

Except oh god, did you have to remind me of this. I HAD BLEACHED IT FROM MY MIND.

The understanding of the show’s POV has to depend upon whose POV it is catering to at a given moment, and thus what POV the framing of the scene is contingent upon; in Caroline and Damon’s first morning after, the viewpoint is Caroline’s, her fear and horror, which places the focus on Damon’s monstrosity. However, the scene with Andie in the bathtub-while still highlighting the violence-is catering to Damon, stressing Damon’s desperation and need for a ‘distraction’. Therefore, changing the frame can entirely change what the show is saying, even if the scene itself remains the same.

But yes - well said. The more the show has gotten sympathetic towards Damon, the more focus there is on his man pain as opposed to the suffering of his victims.

[youcallitwinter]

Except oh god, did you have to remind me of this. I HAD BLEACHED IT FROM MY MIND.

I KNOW I WOULD LIKE TO AS WELL. But every time I think of wrongly handled arcs, that's top priority with a bullet, heh.

But yes - well said. The more the show has gotten sympathetic towards Damon, the more focus there is on his man pain as opposed to the suffering of his victims.

I don't even remember who said this, but there's some quote that says that understanding is the first step to acceptance? (OKAY, LOL, GOOGLE SAYS JKR SAID IT). Which, I suppose makes sense; villains are usually created premised on the sympathy you bear for the people they're victimizing and an understanding of psychological motives tends to breed empathy; I mean, by this time, even Klaus isn't villainous as much as he's, well, pathetic. And Damon is a character who might have an alienating effect for the in-text audience, but the show often comes over it and says 'yes, he did this, BUT...'.

THANK YOU, O queen of metas :D

[cranmers]

Scraping in to say that all I want from this show is for Klaus to be an actual antagonist.

WHY CAN'T I HAVE NICE THINGS?

[youcallitwinter]

DUDE, THIS IS ANOTHER INSTANCE IN WHICH THE SHOW IS COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH WHAT IT THINKS IT'S PRESENTING AND HOW IT'S PRESENTING IT. I mean, seriously, Klaus has to be the saddest super-villain in the history of ever. And it takes me away from the other characters and their 'MUST KILL KLAUS' agenda completely. I mean srsly, all the poor guy wants to do is draw horses, and sit in his arts&crafts room, and seduce the blondes and occasionally throw his weight around as the alpha-male. Leave him alone, you guys.

[wheatear]

If Elena had had her say first; something like “why would he do that? How could he do that to me?” and then Stefan had done his part; looked down as if her were afraid of her reaction and told her that it was because Damon loved her, and that had been the last word of the scene, then Damon’s action would have been legitimized.

I have to add - fantastic point. It hadn't occurred to me before just how important a character getting the last word is. Your examples here are brilliant - amazing how switching the order of just two lines of dialogue can completely change the meaning of a scene.

This is why the moments where one character silences the other have such an effect - why the writers chose to put Jeremy in a position where he literally could not say anything while Rose gave him her D/E speech, and why Caroline interrupts Elena to give her S/E speech.

[youcallitwinter]

t hadn't occurred to me before just how important a character getting the last word is.

(Actually it totally hadn't occurred to me either, all my arguments are usually formed IN the process of writing, heh). I really do think that structural placement is extremely important, which is why I'm much more a Doylist than a Watsonian, and far too interested in structure :s

This is why the moments where one character silences the other have such an effect - why the writers chose to put Jeremy in a position where he literally could not say anything while Rose gave him her D/E speech, and why Caroline interrupts Elena to give her S/E speech.

That's an excellent point! Because literally silencing someone just completely removes all those alternate discourses that otherwise exists wherever there are multiple characters. And if Elena or Jeremy had gotten the chance to make their objections afterwards, it would've totally undermined the Shipping Manifestos. Alas D:

[wheatear]

I really do think that structural placement is extremely important, which is why I'm much more a Doylist than a Watsonian, and far too interested in structure :s

I love it; I will be looking out for this in the future!

Because literally silencing someone just completely removes all those alternate discourses that otherwise exists wherever there are multiple characters.

Yes, exactly. Especially Jeremy. It's a horrible mistreatment of his character when at no point has he ever been allowed to have an honest conversation with Elena about the vampires in her life. He never talked to Elena about getting his neck snapped. I can't fathom why none of these characters are sitting Elena down and recommending that she cuts all Salvatores out of her life. So many of them have good reason to do it. But that wouldn't fit the 'Elena must be surrounded by Salvatores at all times' agenda.

[youcallitwinter]

It's a horrible mistreatment of his character when at no point has he ever been allowed to have an honest conversation with Elena about the vampires in her life.

I know, right? There totally should be a discussion there D: That's what happens when you send away characters; their view-point just...goes with them. Like, Jeremy is one of the most legit characters to actually talk to Elena about the Salvatores. At this point, it doesn't even seem like They're The Only Guys In The World For Her and She Will Never Love Again. I mean, it does, but only because the show makes it seem so. I would've faulted Caroline's Matt conversation on that angle as well, but she's a teenage girl, so maybe it does seem like it's True Epic Love Forever, so I let that slide.

But that wouldn't fit the 'Elena must be surrounded by Salvatores at all times' agenda.THIS SO MUCH. It's little things that add to this; like Klaus saying something earlier in the season about how he'll hurt everyone if she doesn't ask Stefan to give the coffins back or something;

[goldenusagi]

the problem isn't that Elena's characertization is OOC, it is not. It is very much in-character. The problem is the framing which caters to her point-of-view, instead of presenting it as delusionalYes, exactly. I actually don't have that much of a problem with Elena going back to Stefan even after the stuff he did (because, logically, getting with Damon isn't any better), but the way the show is presenting it as epic and true and always-has-been is annoying me to death

[youcallitwinter]

Yes, exactly. I actually don't have that much of a problem with Elena going back to Stefan even after the stuff he did (because, logically, getting with Damon isn't any better), but the way the show is presenting it as epic and true and always-has-been is annoying me to death.Precisely! I absolutely don't have a problem with that either; I'd LOVED to see the exploration of this sort of denial and relationship. I'm kind of hoping that they'll retract it and present it as just severely messed up, but I'm not holding my breath. What I absolutely can't understand is why the show is presenting it as if Stefan and Damon are Absolutely the Only Alternatives Left in The World. I mean, Caroline's speech to Matt, the oddest thing ever, seemed to suggest that Elena is never going to ever look at another guy again; which is the show kind of closing the net on its ships; because it needs to create drama for its season finale and Elena's Big Choice (I'd be everything she 'chooses' Damon, lol, this show). And maybe simultaneously pave the way for

[cranmers]

Yourself and wheatear should probably collab on a book called 'Framing for Dummies' ;)

This will be a short comment (I'm currently being very leisurely on a cross trainer) that will be followed by a longer one when I have access to an actual computer with an actual keyboard later on this evening!

Suffice to say this post is a gift and I loved the simple step by step explanation. #stupid person is stupid. I'm somewhere in the region of 99% convinced by the argument here (and you said that that we would never be on the same page!!! :P).

Although it kind of seems like your reneging on the OOC/'character assassination'/'they've ruined Caroline's character on the altar of S/E' points? Because I still disagree with all of that. ;)

[youcallitwinter]

Hahaha, shuuuup, you know you totally got it even before, you were just coming at it from a different angle, which is obviously just as valid.

LJ refuses to work on my blackberry, it's the actual worst and takes the longest to load, which makes commenting from anywhere apart from the laptop such a pain DD:

99% CONVINCED? /bows. I was just kidding earlier, we are often enough on the same page, and when we aren't, it's just breeding ground for awesome discussions, and that is pretty much epic. But also, thank you :D

Although it kind of seems like your reneging on the OOC/'character assassination'/'they've ruined Caroline's character on the altar of S/E' points? Because I still disagree with all of that. ;)

I totally get your argument there, and I completely agree from a Caroline-POV; like I know she will always, always choose Stefan over Damon, and there is no way in hell anyone can fault her for that. But I still don't think that stretches to Elena/Salvatores. Like goldenusagi said above: Like, if your friend says she doesn't want to see

[cranmers]

NO WE WILL NOT AGREE TO DISAGREE.

I just got through that gym workout by mulling over all the things I shall be typing at you when I get home! ;)

<3

[youcallitwinter]

Hahaha, WE ARE DISAGREEING TO AGREE TO DISAGREE? Now I'm legit scared :P

[bellonablack]

My reaction was just the...I think there are all sorts of framing issues in all of it. I'd even say there are some people who think Damon was made legit by the show when he shoved his wrist in Elena's mouth but I think they are reaching. But I know the Jeremy thing was framed badly but not as BADLY as this was. At least someone said they thought they were a bad person during it

[youcallitwinter]

I'd even say there are some people who think Damon was made legit by the show when he shoved his wrist in Elena's mouth

Oh god, that's totally true! Although I'd suggest that was more their interpretation than that the show actually catered to it. Although what it DID later cater to was the Damon-as-a-hero angle in the scene where he tells Stefan that he'll be the one to keep Elena safe, even if she hates him for it, which was used to validate his actions. :s

And I think you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT with your analysis. That is precisely what I've been feeling all season as well. And while there have been a couple of brilliant episodes, there've also been a whole lot more of really annoying, pointless episodes.

Someone could start your house on fire and try to kill you in the buring house and you survive and you're best friends with them the next episode, without much mention to any burning down house. And that--is ....interesting. I never got that. It's that vibe of puzzle pieces. One scene is neglected in the emotional dealings.TA

Annie Wilkes says it best...lol

[bellonablack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVzX22lrWxA... )

[goldenusagi]

Also odd is how no one is worried that Klaus has taken an interest in Caroline?

THIS. Everyone is all, OH NOES, ELENA IS INTERSEST IN DAMON, but has no one cared that the alleged Big Bad is after Caroline? If Elena needs a talking to about Staying Away From Damon, I think Caroline should get a About Staying Away From Klaus. HA, can you imagine? "Caroline, Klaus has feelings for you. What are you going to do about it? I saw you dancing with him. There were definitely looks going on."