The Vampire Diaries: Metanarratives and the Effects of Framing in the Process of Interpretation
This arose from a discussion that wheatear, cranmers, and ishi_chan had on the previous 3x20 (non) reaction post, and also many other discussions on the same topic, that I just found fascinating and wanted to contribute to, and then it just turned into this horrifying thing and I cannot even with my life anymore. /fml (But then again, I’m doing a paper on text and the ( Read more... )
This will be a short comment (I'm currently being very leisurely on a cross trainer) that will be followed by a longer one when I have access to an actual computer with an actual keyboard later on this evening!
Suffice to say this post is a gift and I loved the simple step by step explanation. #stupid person is stupid. I'm somewhere in the region of 99% convinced by the argument here (and you said that that we would never be on the same page!!! :P).
Although it kind of seems like your reneging on the OOC/'character assassination'/'they've ruined Caroline's character on the altar of S/E' points? Because I still disagree with all of that. ;)
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LJ refuses to work on my blackberry, it's the actual worst and takes the longest to load, which makes commenting from anywhere apart from the laptop such a pain DD:
99% CONVINCED? /bows. I was just kidding earlier, we are often enough on the same page, and when we aren't, it's just breeding ground for awesome discussions, and that is pretty much epic. But also, thank you :D
Although it kind of seems like your reneging on the OOC/'character assassination'/'they've ruined Caroline's character on the altar of S/E' points? Because I still disagree with all of that. ;)
I totally get your argument there, and I completely agree from a Caroline-POV; like I know she will always, always choose Stefan over Damon, and there is no way in hell anyone can fault her for that. But I still don't think that stretches to Elena/Salvatores. Like goldenusagi said above: Like, if your friend says she doesn't want to see ( ... )
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I just got through that gym workout by mulling over all the things I shall be typing at you when I get home! ;)
<3
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My spin on it: I am initiating further discussion without your consent. Said discussion will be too tempting for you to refuse, *nods*
YOU NEEDN'T BE SCARED IF YOU COME OVER TO THE DARK SIDE ! :P
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I think this is where you're missing the point. It's not about IC vs OOC. It's not about whether a character's actions are something they would do. It's about how the show presents these actions.
The Damon/Andie stuff is awful not because it's OOC for Damon (it definitely isn't), but because it glosses over the abusive nature of their relationship.
With Caroline, you can argue that what she says is IC, sure. But it's still not good characterisation. There were so many better and more realistic ways she could have reacted ICly. Here youcallitwinter's hypothetical example works and I wish we had seen this instead: If Caroline, for instance, had come in and said to Elena ‘let’s make this a girl’s only dance. You need to stay away from the Salvatores. Stefan may be a million and one times better than Damon, but he’s still ( ... )
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BWAHAHA.
Why was I being so pretentious? Tiredness or something
/shrugs
Only you could manage to write a two-part argument (I assume this is an argument) in response to a comment where I thought I'd conceded to like, 99.9% of the things you'd said! I wonder what it says (haven't read it yet, duh'). I guess I'll see...
it glosses over the abusive nature of their relationship
I only meant to convey that I think the difference in the presentation of this relationship in S2 and S3 is valid. While as abusive and disgusting at it's core in S3 as it is in S2, it's obviously more ~relaxed or whatever. This makes sense because Damon is more relaxed. In S2 Elena's life is continually in danger whereas over the summer between S2 and S3 Damon is casually tracking Stefan with Alaric (no hurry)and apparently Damon, Elena and Andie are all hanging out.
I take your point, I do. I just... I think there might be something in the different presentation between the two seasons.
If Caroline, for instance, had ( ... )
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I aim for 100%, bb. Or apparently I have more opinions about this than I thought? Or I'm feeling argumentative. You pick.
While as abusive and disgusting at it's core in S3 as it is in S2, it's obviously more ~relaxed or whatever.
...Relaxed?
apparently Damon, Elena and Andie are all hanging out.
I refuse to admit that this could be the case, because it would make Elena look like the worst person in the world. It's bad enough that Alaric glosses over it.
But apparently that's not what the character thinks?
No, but it could be. It's not what the character thinks only because the writers choose to make it that way. That's true for anything, of course, but I'm questioning the writers' choices in this case.
This isn't unusual though, the show does this with Caroline.I'm not saying it hasn't been an issue before. This was just a particularly egregious ( ... )
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Lol ilu
...Relaxed?
Poor choice of wording, hence the '~'! You understand what I'm saying though?
I refuse to admit that this could be the case, because it would make Elena look like the worst person in the world. It's bad enough that Alaric glosses over it.
THIS IS SO THE CASE!
Elena isn't all that ~good and her whole ~compassion thing that she's got going on is highly selective. If you're not one of her loved ones then she doesn't care to what extent her boyfriend's bro is abusing you. S2 Andie demonstrated this as perfectly as ever. Stefan was the only one who spoke up and said Damon was abusing Andie. Of course, Stefan ain't that bothered because it's not where the show is going so he only causally mentions it like he did with Caroline in S1.
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I like to think that Elena is better than that. She's supposed to be better than that... This is another case of being shown one thing when we're meant to believe another.
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Because what the narrative essentially does through her dialogue is that it trivializes her own experiences of abuse. The show never bothered to expand upon that angle; so here it's just nicely making use of her experiences to further its ~shipping agenda.
It belittles her. That's why I have a problem with the characterisation here. The show makes no attempt to address Caroline's experiences or to develop her relationship with Stefan so that we can see where she's coming from. There's no interest in Caroline's perspective at all, other than when she can trot out her "S/E forever!" speech. She's a munchkin running around pushing Elena towards Stefan and Matt away from Elena, because we're near the season finale now and Elena has to make her "choice".
And it still has a million logical holes. Is Caroline unaware of everything that Stefan has done this season? Are we supposed to imagine that she's being wilfully blind to Stefan's faults, or is the show actually validating her ( ... )
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Interesting tactic - while ofc. I agree that this is a fantastic post, I have already read it.
The show makes no attempt to address Caroline's experiences or to develop her relationship with Stefan so that we can see where she's coming from. There's no interest in Caroline's perspective at all, other than when she can trot out her "S/E forever!" speech.
That's fair, I agree with that. Although it is symptomatic of the poor/limited development that the supporting cast and even sometimes the main cast (see: Stefan) get. It's not a new and shiny grievance, surely?
it's all because the show isn't as interested in the Klaus/Caroline/Tyler triangle as much as it's invested in S/E/D
You mean the show isn't as invested in Caroline as it is in Elena? Again, this is a long-standing issue. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT ELENA ALL OF THE TIME AND OTHER CHARACTERS SUFFER FOR IT.
tl;dr
Oh but that never applies to anything you write, mate :)
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Again, not claiming any of this is a new and shiny grievance. Caroline has gotten the short end of the stick pretty much this entire season. I suppose it's only now that we're coming towards the end of the season that we can look back and reflect and say... yeah, so that didn't really go anywhere, did it?
You mean the show isn't as invested in Caroline as it is in Elena?
lol this is BRAND NEW INFORMATION. She was so great in Season 2 though, I guess I had higher expectations. :(
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Agreed. Your last comment - the one that said that the 'show makes no attempt to address Caroline's experiences or to develop her relationship with Stefan so that we can see where she's coming from' convinced me on that point.
Caroline has gotten the short end of the stick pretty much this entire season.
I agree with that too. It was really disappointing after her S2 arc which was brilliant, although I still had grievances with her lack of development at times.
lol this is BRAND NEW INFORMATION
HAHA MY POINT EXACTLY!!!
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