i want to hold you high and steal your pain away

Nov 08, 2010 17:57

I went to the funeral today ( Read more... )

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christinathena November 9 2010, 00:34:03 UTC
I'm glad you're taking something positive from this experience. <3 Like I said at Tiffany's, I've long believed that you have the capability to get better, but no one can do it for you. I've been waiting for something to happen to motivate you, and I hope that this will do that. I love you very much and I will always be here to support you. I wish I weren't 500 miles away, but soon we'll be living together. I will be there to share your joys and your sorrows.

Although I do not, and probably cannot, believe in God, if it gives you strength and hope, I'm glad that you can believe in him.

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christinathena November 9 2010, 00:52:28 UTC
Aw, thanks! <3

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trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 00:54:03 UTC
I used to think I could never be anything but agnostic either (I know you're atheist, right? But I was agnostic). I just thought I could not believe or disbelieve in God. I don't feel that way any more. I'm not trying to convert you (you know I'm not like that, and I believe in a loving, caring God- always did, always will) but I'm just saying, you can be surprised ( ... )

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christinathena November 9 2010, 01:24:22 UTC
People say letting God into your life is a choice, but I don't think it is. I think you're right. I, myself, see no logical reason to believe in God, nor do I understand the emotional need many people seem to have to believe in God. For me, religion was painful, the attempt to believe in something I couldn't. I did, actually, believe for a while in high school (and when I was little, assumed no one actually did - I thought God was just like Santa, something people just pretended to believe in - it came as quite a shock to me the day I realized that people were serious about God!), more or less, but it didn't last long. When that started slipping, I agonized over it, attempting to believe, but finally found peace when I gave up the effort and found that the idea of a Godless universe was, for me, more comforting than the idea of a God. It took almost a decade for me to finally accept being an atheist. I was a sort of vague deist for a good part of that time, though ( ... )

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trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 01:36:25 UTC
God is logical, though. Just think about it. How did the big bang start? What about evolution? What about all the science? I hate it when people say that science conflicts with God, because it doesn't. Science is so logical, so perfectly understood, so perfectly planned... so perfect in every way, beautiful... that it had to come from a higher creator. Who else could create something so logical? I don't believe God just said "Hey, I created you guys, there's no reason for it!" I think he knew we were looking for answers to our questions, so he created science and logic and reason, to rule above all else, except Him ( ... )

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christinathena November 9 2010, 02:16:23 UTC
I don't want to get into a religious debate. This is not the right place to do so. We can discuss it another time if you like, but for now, I'll just leave it at this: I'm happy that your belief gives you strength.

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trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 02:35:30 UTC
okay whatever i wasn't trying to debate i was just expressing my thoughts

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christinathena November 9 2010, 02:47:28 UTC
I'm sorry, hon. It's just that I'm really sensitive about religion. Like I said about, my experiences with religion were unpleasant. Attempts to make myself believe in something I couldn't believe. This has left me somewhat bitter about anything that smacks of proselytizing, and I was trying to stop myself before getting into a fight. It didn't work. :-( I'm really, really sorry. I feel awful.

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trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 03:00:53 UTC
no i feel fucking awful ( ... )

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christinathena November 9 2010, 03:19:17 UTC
*hugs* You're not a horrible person. And I'm not trying to say that my experiences were unusually horrible, only explaining why I tend to be very triggery about it. I was attempting to stop myself before getting into a fight, because I recognized the pattern I was falling into. I knew that if I kept going on that route, I would get into a huge fight with you, and I was trying to stop myself before I got to that point. Obviously it didn't work. :-/ I sometimes succeed, but not always. I get offended when people claim to know that God exists. Agnosticism seems a bit silly to me, as it implies that God and no-God are equally plausible. When I say I'm an atheist, I don't mean "I KNOW THERE IS NO GOD!" I mean "I find God to be very implausible". It's an unfalsifiable idea, and if there is a God or gods, how could we know anything about him/her/it/them? How could you know if a theology is right or wrong ( ... )

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part I trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 03:37:02 UTC
the thing is though, you need to realise the god i believe in is not like the god you've heard about from other people. i think sometimes people turn to atheism because they are so used to bad experiences and crappy, horrible organized religion that believes in this awful, terrible, vengeful god who hates trans and gays and bi-sexuals and pokemon and god knows whatever the fuck else ( ... )

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Re: part I christinathena November 9 2010, 03:56:23 UTC
the thing is though, you need to realise the god i believe in is not like the god you've heard about from other people. i think sometimes people turn to atheism because they are so used to bad experiences and crappy, horrible organized religion that believes in this awful, terrible, vengeful god who hates trans and gays and bi-sexuals and pokemon and god knows whatever the fuck else. No, see, that's not it. Maybe some people become atheists for that reason, but I doubt many do. Most people who are turned away by experiences like that turn to other religions, or to some kind of spirituality. I don't believe in the angry, vengeful God. I don't believe in a loving caring God. I don't believe in the limited gods of Greek mythology or Shinto or Norse paganism or any other religion. I don't believe in the gods of Hindu. I don't believe in the Buddha. I don't believe in any of those concepts ( ... )

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Re: part I christinathena November 9 2010, 04:01:59 UTC
Re: that last paragraph, actually that is the kind of god I believed in for a while, before I flirted with polytheism and then finally atheism.

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part II trenchcoatedson November 9 2010, 03:40:36 UTC
and you do let me push you around. i'm tired of it. but be warned, i'm fucking mean when people stand up to me. i usually go: "i don't give a fuck/i don't care, i'm going to do that anyway, fuck you". don't let that deter you, realise it's just my conduct disorder and that i might not feel guilty about it, because... i can't, christy. i was made this way by my mother. it's hard for me to feel those emotions ( ... )

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Re: part II christinathena November 9 2010, 03:58:14 UTC
From now on, I'll make an effort to stand up to you more. I tend to fear confrontation, but perhaps this is just what I need to get over that fear. We both have something to learn from each other.

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