Yes, and as with the Iranians negotiating their way right out of sanctions they are completely effective means of browbeating a country into changing its mind-oh wait.
Russia is also able to rely on China to bail itself out of the sanctions. Generally speaking, if people are willing to use guns to settle an issue, they've probably passed the point where using the pocket book does more than piss them off.
Like I've said each time in those two hundred occasions when you've brought this up before, if you're willing to hold yourself to the Russian moral standards, be my guest.
Not at all, I'm asking why anti-war movements only manifest at specific times since opposing war is something that really should be consistent. If you're opposed to very bad things done by soldiers to civilians, as most people should be, then why is it that these very bad things only matter with a specific subset of US politicians? Likewise, if people really care about the refugee crisis treating the people who are deliberately boosting it as allies is a damn fool mistake.
Because I'm curious as to what others think, and because I haven't actually made up my mind on anything other than refusing to treat Russia as a causal agent in the refugee crisis being a moronic concept.
Pacifism can be hypocritical, yes. It could be selective as well - as in, selecting to hold your own to the higher standard it claims to be espousing, compared to some particular others. That could explain the greater outrage in the West about Western atrocity. Frankly, a West where the public is less outraged by their society's own atrocities than about others', is not a West I would like to be a part of.
And that aside, actions like this are directly causing the refugee crisis. So before we cheer Russia resurrecting the spirit of the Black Hundreds, maybe we should try to stop them causing the crisis they react so brutally to in their own country?
In many respects, Russia is not the West. Mentality, to begin with. The way they conduct politics. Their geopolitical mindset. Even personal relations. I have seen it first-hand (the latter part).
How do you propose to stop a big country from doing whatever they want from the position of power?
1) Mentality in what way? If Poland and Hungary are duplicating the Putinist route, are they not Western? Were Robespierre and Danton Western?
2) In what way is Russian politics not Western? The West has seldom had problems with wholesale political executions when they've felt them justified.
3) Geopolitical mindset in what way? The West's self-proclaimed defenders are as paranoid that the West is menaced as Russians are to Russia.
4) Call their bluffs and send actual soldiers to do it. If that were done the oligarchs would do in Putin with a shovel and there'd be no more of that..
RE: Not a bad post at all. Hey, it's even got a Hitler!underlankersFebruary 11 2016, 00:25:29 UTC
The point about Native Americans is valid, yet nonetheless European protestations about anti-Semitism on the part of Muslim immigrants would be somewhat more convincing if their grandfathers hadn't deliberately murdered almost the entire Jewish population of Europe. And then proceeded to blame Hitler and/or Stalin for their gleefully collaborating in killing their neighbors and stealing their stuff afterward to add insult to injury.
RE: Not a bad post at all. Hey, it's even got a Hitler!mahnmutFebruary 11 2016, 06:54:18 UTC
By that logic, almost no one has the moral right to call out anybody else on anything, because chances are the one calling out has some skeletons deep inside their closet. The moment they open their mouth to express some valid criticism, they'd be made to shut up with the tu quoque argument.
Doesn't foster an open debate of issues much, does it.
Really, what's the expiry date that a Hitler or a Stalin argument might have? Or are some nations forever prohibited from having a position on some issues?
RE: Not a bad post at all. Hey, it's even got a Hitler!dreamville_bgFebruary 11 2016, 07:24:36 UTC
Oh, and by extension to my remark above about strawman, tu quoque is the second most prevalent fallacy that's been employed around political talk-rooms.
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Lather, rinse, repeat.
I'd like to see you do the reverse at least once, you know, for a change.
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Simple. Skip the read. But do spare us the ad hominem.
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Oh wait.
Back to tweeting the outcry, then.
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And that aside, actions like this are directly causing the refugee crisis. So before we cheer Russia resurrecting the spirit of the Black Hundreds, maybe we should try to stop them causing the crisis they react so brutally to in their own country?
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How do you propose to stop a big country from doing whatever they want from the position of power?
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2) In what way is Russian politics not Western? The West has seldom had problems with wholesale political executions when they've felt them justified.
3) Geopolitical mindset in what way? The West's self-proclaimed defenders are as paranoid that the West is menaced as Russians are to Russia.
4) Call their bluffs and send actual soldiers to do it. If that were done the oligarchs would do in Putin with a shovel and there'd be no more of that..
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For a moment I thought you were talking about the Native Americans, but then I spotted Hitler being mentioned in there so it can't be that.
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Doesn't foster an open debate of issues much, does it.
Really, what's the expiry date that a Hitler or a Stalin argument might have? Or are some nations forever prohibited from having a position on some issues?
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