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Colin. To address a few of your points:
FIRST OF ALL, I do not LOVE the musical, but I found a few of your arguments weak so I'm gonna challange them, having worked with this material for the past week.
1. Yeah, so Cosette and Marius bump into each other in the street and fall madly in love immediately. Corny, unrealistic, call it what you want, but Les Mis is not the only show with a love story like that, so don't let that be something to turn you off.
2. When I was reading your post I took notes about what I disagreed with...and I wrote "Everything's in the acting"--- but I'm not sure what I was referring to. But, I think I was talking about Valjean and the bishop. And this also ties in with Javert. So let me try to explain this incase you've misunderstood.
I find Javert to be one of the most compelling characters in Les Mis. As you can see in the first number of the show, Javert has devoted himself entirely to ensuring that the law is followed. He knows only the law, and his purpose in life is to make sure that other people follow it. Valjean, who has broken the law, cannot ever change their ways and be forgiven. And to specifically adress one of your points, Javert is a policeman, so I'm sure Valjean isn't the only man he's after in the duration of the show. It just so happens that this isn't a show about all of the criminals Javert is pursuing, it's about one of them. And oftentimes a cop DOES continue to go after one person. But, that's going a completely different and unrelated direction from where I was before. Continuing....
Javert doesn't really kill himself because he "doesn't want to be indentured to the man that he has hunted so feverishly." I mean, that could be an element of it, but it's because his reality has completely shattered. This man who was imprisoned for breaking the law has turned into this saintlike man who has spared his life and Javert's sitting there thinkin' "Jesus, I thought this guy was a horrible criminal, but he just granted my my life, and here I've been thinking all of this time that men cannot change, but this guy did. And that was my life, and what I believed in, and it's been proven wrong, so what do I have to live by now? What I knew to be right, and true, is wrong." And I think he simply felt lost. Well, not "simply", but you catch my drift. And it just so happens that our Javert isn't the best, so he probably didn't help you understand that any better, but that's my take on it. The same thing happens with Valjean and the Bishop. Valjean realizes that people can change, he's been given a second chance, a chance to become a better person, and that's incredible. He's just been released from prison, so to be given a second chance is like "Holy cow." Only I don't think they said "Holy cow" in the 1800s.
3. I want to address your Marius/Eponine schpiel, because I thought that was LAME. Lame beyond lame. And I'm going to post exactly what you said right here so I can refer back to it and rip your reason #8 to shreads. :-)
"Eponine is shot in battle, and all of a sudden (1), she and Marius have this remarkable, almost-romantic relationship (2) . Where did this bond come from? Eponine admits to him that she is in love with him, and he replies as if he is her lover (3), when in fact he is madly in love with Cosette. After that, he returns to Cosette as if there is no change in him (4), although it seems only appropriate that there would be."
1) ALL OF A SUDDEN? It's not like it would be realistic for her to be shot and then WAIT a little while before he reacted so strongly, right? Sorry, that wasn't such a big deal, but it sort of made me cringe.
2) Whoa whoa whoa. Almost romantic? I want to let you know that I was with Nick as he was writing his nine questions (Incase you don't know what I mean by the nine questions, there was this incredibly woman named Uta Hagen who was essentially this GODDESS in theater who was incredibly convincing and she was asked once how she was so convincing in every single role that she had, big or small, and in response she wrote a book called Respect for Acting, in which she had written nine questions that she answered for every character she was playing. The questions are Who am I/ Where am I/What time is it/What are my surroundings/What are my relationships/What are the given circumstances/What do I want/ What's in my way/What do I do to get what I want. And at Taproot we're required to answer all nine questions for our character. ANYWAY) For the question "What are my relationships?" Nick talked about Marius' relationship with Eponine. And I quote, he wrote "I love Eponine. But I love her SO deeply that it is almost like she is my sister. She means the world to me." THEN he mentioned Cosette; he said "I am madly infatuated with Cosette" which A) Is awesome wording, but B) Was interesting because he didn't actually use the word "LOVE" when describing his feelings towards Cosette, which I think was a way of emphasizing the difference between the incredibly strong bond that Marius feels with both Eponine and Cosette. But furthermore, Eponine was wounded doing something for Marius, because she loved him so much, and she fuckin dies in his arms, which to me is incredibly moving, because their love for each other was so amazingly strong. And if I was dying in the arms of a man that I was in love with, I would tell him, so I don't think it's unreasonable that Eponine sings to Marius that way, and I don't think that the way that Marius responds to her is in anyway "as her lover."
3) Actually, I think I covered 3 in my last argument. Man am I bad at this.
4) That is an acting problem, not a problem with Les Mis itself. If there seems to be no change in Marius, it's because he's not acting a change. Capiche?
And there were two other minor things that bugged me and then I'll stop I swear.
1) You're reason #7. C'mon Colin, when Eponine and Marius enter in the show, they are already best friends. If we added an entire act about their wonderful friendship, we would have even more people in the audience snoozing. Just accept the fact that they're best friends, because that's what they are, regardless of whether or not there's proof in the script.
and 2) Your #9. I think that's weak. She does not necessarily die of a terminal illness. She's not as strong as she was, time has passed, she's working incredibly hard to save her daughter and herself, and she's putting her daughter first. She just runs out of steam. There is nothing within the script that specifies that she dies of a terminal illness.
Whewwwwwwwwwwwwww. Done. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this...sorry it was so long.
Love, M
FIRST OF ALL, I do not LOVE the musical, but I found a few of your arguments weak so I'm gonna challange them, having worked with this material for the past week.
1. Yeah, so Cosette and Marius bump into each other in the street and fall madly in love immediately. Corny, unrealistic, call it what you want, but Les Mis is not the only show with a love story like that, so don't let that be something to turn you off.
2. When I was reading your post I took notes about what I disagreed with...and I wrote "Everything's in the acting"--- but I'm not sure what I was referring to. But, I think I was talking about Valjean and the bishop. And this also ties in with Javert. So let me try to explain this incase you've misunderstood.
I find Javert to be one of the most compelling characters in Les Mis. As you can see in the first number of the show, Javert has devoted himself entirely to ensuring that the law is followed. He knows only the law, and his purpose in life is to make sure that other people follow it. Valjean, who has broken the law, cannot ever change their ways and be forgiven. And to specifically adress one of your points, Javert is a policeman, so I'm sure Valjean isn't the only man he's after in the duration of the show. It just so happens that this isn't a show about all of the criminals Javert is pursuing, it's about one of them. And oftentimes a cop DOES continue to go after one person. But, that's going a completely different and unrelated direction from where I was before. Continuing....
Javert doesn't really kill himself because he "doesn't want to be indentured to the man that he has hunted so feverishly." I mean, that could be an element of it, but it's because his reality has completely shattered. This man who was imprisoned for breaking the law has turned into this saintlike man who has spared his life and Javert's sitting there thinkin' "Jesus, I thought this guy was a horrible criminal, but he just granted my my life, and here I've been thinking all of this time that men cannot change, but this guy did. And that was my life, and what I believed in, and it's been proven wrong, so what do I have to live by now? What I knew to be right, and true, is wrong." And I think he simply felt lost. Well, not "simply", but you catch my drift. And it just so happens that our Javert isn't the best, so he probably didn't help you understand that any better, but that's my take on it. The same thing happens with Valjean and the Bishop. Valjean realizes that people can change, he's been given a second chance, a chance to become a better person, and that's incredible. He's just been released from prison, so to be given a second chance is like "Holy cow." Only I don't think they said "Holy cow" in the 1800s.
3. I want to address your Marius/Eponine schpiel, because I thought that was LAME. Lame beyond lame. And I'm going to post exactly what you said right here so I can refer back to it and rip your reason #8 to shreads. :-)
"Eponine is shot in battle, and all of a sudden (1), she and Marius have this remarkable, almost-romantic relationship (2) . Where did this bond come from? Eponine admits to him that she is in love with him, and he replies as if he is her lover (3), when in fact he is madly in love with Cosette. After that, he returns to Cosette as if there is no change in him (4), although it seems only appropriate that there would be."
1) ALL OF A SUDDEN? It's not like it would be realistic for her to be shot and then WAIT a little while before he reacted so strongly, right? Sorry, that wasn't such a big deal, but it sort of made me cringe.
2) Whoa whoa whoa. Almost romantic? I want to let you know that I was with Nick as he was writing his nine questions (Incase you don't know what I mean by the nine questions, there was this incredibly woman named Uta Hagen who was essentially this GODDESS in theater who was incredibly convincing and she was asked once how she was so convincing in every single role that she had, big or small, and in response she wrote a book called Respect for Acting, in which she had written nine questions that she answered for every character she was playing. The questions are Who am I/ Where am I/What time is it/What are my surroundings/What are my relationships/What are the given circumstances/What do I want/ What's in my way/What do I do to get what I want. And at Taproot we're required to answer all nine questions for our character. ANYWAY) For the question "What are my relationships?" Nick talked about Marius' relationship with Eponine. And I quote, he wrote "I love Eponine. But I love her SO deeply that it is almost like she is my sister. She means the world to me." THEN he mentioned Cosette; he said "I am madly infatuated with Cosette" which A) Is awesome wording, but B) Was interesting because he didn't actually use the word "LOVE" when describing his feelings towards Cosette, which I think was a way of emphasizing the difference between the incredibly strong bond that Marius feels with both Eponine and Cosette. But furthermore, Eponine was wounded doing something for Marius, because she loved him so much, and she fuckin dies in his arms, which to me is incredibly moving, because their love for each other was so amazingly strong. And if I was dying in the arms of a man that I was in love with, I would tell him, so I don't think it's unreasonable that Eponine sings to Marius that way, and I don't think that the way that Marius responds to her is in anyway "as her lover."
3) Actually, I think I covered 3 in my last argument. Man am I bad at this.
4) That is an acting problem, not a problem with Les Mis itself. If there seems to be no change in Marius, it's because he's not acting a change. Capiche?
And there were two other minor things that bugged me and then I'll stop I swear.
1) You're reason #7. C'mon Colin, when Eponine and Marius enter in the show, they are already best friends. If we added an entire act about their wonderful friendship, we would have even more people in the audience snoozing. Just accept the fact that they're best friends, because that's what they are, regardless of whether or not there's proof in the script.
and 2) Your #9. I think that's weak. She does not necessarily die of a terminal illness. She's not as strong as she was, time has passed, she's working incredibly hard to save her daughter and herself, and she's putting her daughter first. She just runs out of steam. There is nothing within the script that specifies that she dies of a terminal illness.
Whewwwwwwwwwwwwww. Done. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this...sorry it was so long.
Love, M