I enjoyed that scene but now I'm confused. The boys' opinion on John keeps flip flopping though I'm guessing that's more due to the writers than actual characterization.
Nah, the show has always been about family. They've beat that into our heads - from day one. Even Bobby said something like that, family is here to drive you crazy. The boys' thoughts on their father is much like any child, especially boys with their dads. There are a few exceptions, but most boys have a bit of a love/hate relationship with their father. Their first (and in this case, only really) authority figure. They fear/respect him, hate/love him, blame him for everything/realize that he did what he did because he loved them so much. It is a roller coaster. I think too, that because of the life they lead, normal teenage rebellion was pretty much squashed early on. My thoughts are, they are stunted in a way. A lot of the opinions they have had through the years are very "teenage" like, something they may not have gone through (or not exactly the same way) as a "normal" teenager does. They had to assume adult responsibilities early on, especially Dean. They didn't lead a normal life and John was not a "normal" dad in that
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I guess I just don't have the life experience to grasp that simply from watching the show and not thinking about the meta behind it as we are now. My father was never like that. I can't say I felt fear of my dad growing up. Not that he's perfect by any means but I just don't have that common thread to share with the characters in order to understand that POV
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Well, as a woman and a mother and a person with TONS of life experience, I can say that I see it time and time again. Not all sons, and certainly not all children, have that kind of relationship with their fathers. Some dads are dead-beats, some are abusers, some love unconditionally, some are just as touchy/feely as women, some never have that "beat down" that I have seen between fathers and sons. It's control and obedience and disobedience and pushing limits and testosterone. There are pissing contests and challenges and mistakes. A lot of times, it's just a male thing. The young colt challenges the stallion, the adolescent male being "kicked" out of the pride by the adult male lion. The Alpha wolf that asserts his dominance over a younger wolf. I wouldn't be surprised if we see JDM at some point in the future. For the first time in 10 years,he is coming to a convention in Las Vegas this spring. I think we may be in for a resolution of a sort sometime down the line between John and the boys.
Yea all dads are very different. I know my dad didn't have the nicest father growing up. So maybe it's a "don't want to do what he did to me" kind of thing. I wonder if Dean feels that way about how he went in helping to raise Sam. Damn would that make a good fic prompt or what? Wish I was good at writing those things.
I saw the Js announce JDM too. Definitely didn't see that coming. I was thinking it was either an early s11 pickup or someone was having another baby LOL! I wonder if JDM attending a con means he's going to pop up on the show again or something. Maybe this little scene in 10.09 is foreshadowing? Would be interesting. I'd even take just a flashback! I could have sworn someone tweeted a cap from the Jan promo that showed the actor who played young Dean in Bad Boys. Idk if it's just a recycled clip from that epi but it would be cool to have more flashbacks. I love pre-series stories. Wish they did that for the spinoff!
Well, when Dean was helping to raise Ben, Ben would never be a hunter and then did that all "min-erase" thing which I think was stupid. I think he might do some things differently NOW. Like the mind erase thing. Dumb from my POV. Erasing Ben's memories did nothing to erase the demons who knew what he was doing I'm sure. So as far as I am concerned, he put Ben in more danger. But that is beating a dead horse. I'm sure some of the things he would change and change for the better as a dad. No doubt on that. But I think he would also re-think some of the things his dad did and incorporate them into his own parenting style. And since I don't believe (in my own head) that any kid of Dean's wouldn't be hunting - that changes everything on how Dean would raise a kid. As long as there are monsters out there, his family would be at risk ALWAYS so teaching them to hunt would just be protecting them in the way that John protected them. The only way John could "protect" his boys was to put them in the line of fire and give them the skills
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Oh yea I totally agree. The mind erase thing was lame. I mean, what happened to "Of course you should be afraid of the dark. You know what's out there!"? Personally I think Ben and Lisa were connected enough to the Winchesters way back with the changelings episode. From that time on, any demon or w/e would see that Dean cared for them even before the time he lived with them. Why else would he repeatedly visit Lisa and even warn her before the apocalypse went down? So them suddenly not knowing about what's out there is more a danger than a help. I also wondered if Cas erased the whole neighborhood's knowledge of Dean. And what happened to all Dean's belongings at her house? Wouldn't something give him away
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I'm just skimming, so if my reply to your post doesn't make total sense, or I'm completely addressing/ignoring the wrong issue, or repeating what someone else said, I apologize.
Re: Dean's thoughts on John . . . I totally see growth in Dean. He started out hero-worshiping John, then phased into resenting him for dumping everything he did on Dean, for being absentee, whatever. Then in S6, the one with Samuel, Dean tells Sam to remember what John taught them about family, and he lands into Samuel about how Samuel claims everything is about family, but that's where he and John differed, because for John, it actually was. I see Dean as having come full circle, to a point where he doesn't hero-worship John, but he remembers the good stuff, too, not just the bad. Where he isn't resentful, he accepts his dad as flawed by trying.
It's been a while since I've composed these thoughts as I've done in the past, so I hope that makes sense.
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I saw the Js announce JDM too. Definitely didn't see that coming. I was thinking it was either an early s11 pickup or someone was having another baby LOL! I wonder if JDM attending a con means he's going to pop up on the show again or something. Maybe this little scene in 10.09 is foreshadowing? Would be interesting. I'd even take just a flashback! I could have sworn someone tweeted a cap from the Jan promo that showed the actor who played young Dean in Bad Boys. Idk if it's just a recycled clip from that epi but it would be cool to have more flashbacks. I love pre-series stories. Wish they did that for the spinoff!
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Re: Dean's thoughts on John . . . I totally see growth in Dean. He started out hero-worshiping John, then phased into resenting him for dumping everything he did on Dean, for being absentee, whatever. Then in S6, the one with Samuel, Dean tells Sam to remember what John taught them about family, and he lands into Samuel about how Samuel claims everything is about family, but that's where he and John differed, because for John, it actually was. I see Dean as having come full circle, to a point where he doesn't hero-worship John, but he remembers the good stuff, too, not just the bad. Where he isn't resentful, he accepts his dad as flawed by trying.
It's been a while since I've composed these thoughts as I've done in the past, so I hope that makes sense.
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