A NEW RULE APPEARS

[these_balls]

Hey, Route!

Yes, more new stuff. Everything chaaanges, chaaaanges, it's evolutionary~

Comments

i have to stop editing.

[phoenix_temple]

Oh my god, do I ever stop asking questions.

On linking applications, I know comments were getting screened a lot around the time linking got super popular. I just wanted to make sure that this wouldn't happen again? It's the whole IF IT'S NOT A WHITE LISTED LINK, SCREW YOU 8DDD thing LJ started doing last spring. I think, for a while at least, wikia wasn't whitelisted and that's where a good portion of reference links come from.

Also, on passwords: I know you've heard this a thousand times from me, but if someone is already in the game, reading through the huge post that is the FAQ is a giant headache to find something that hasn't even necessarily changed. I don't think a system like that is going to work when you have fifteen and a half pages (on google docs) that a player is going to have to read through every single time they want to apply for a character

[these_balls]

never stop asking question! i'll do my best.

If we have a linking problem (like, as you pointed out, comments getting screened) rescinding the rule may definitely become an option; but for now, we want to try this out in the name of making apps both A) easier and faster for us to get through, and B) keeping everything in place for our and for players' reference. We had some concerns, for instance, when someone erroneously thought we'd accepted a (linked) app with no samples, when the mun had actually simply removed them after being accepted.

Noted down your suggestion on giving a pass to curent members, which seems sound! I'm going to make a document with everybody's suggestions, for safekeeping. As for the tasks themselves--would something like, "which rule did you like best and why?" or "how many pokemon can one trainer keep?" be better? I'll have to look into the app system at both those games.

Thanks for the input!

[usedrage]

Well, the thing is? There's an option to turn it off. It was kind of a roundabout, tired way of asking "Please tell me you guys have turned off link screening?"

Maybe I didn't phrase it right, but it's not so much of a pass as much as a one-time deal. I'm all for the task and all for the searching of the FAQ, I just think a repeated search for everything is excessive.

And, again imo, I think a question better suited would be something like "how does anonymous work on the gear?" or "What Pokemon types does rain affect?"

(Dollsy just asked you, somewhere in the FAQ to put "Welcome to the Dollsy House" at the bottom of the app, when I was there.)

/sneaks in liek ninja

[soccergoggles]

Hi! I just wanted to clarify with you (since both Ara and Raile weren't mods back then) that the screening link problem should be settled. The only reason why it started screening apps was when LJ reset every privacy setting the mod/comm accounts had when it included the new "Spam Protection" bit. And screened "untrustworthy" links.

It was brought up to me via AIM (or private plurk, icr which it was now) and was fixed immediately.

[sfaccendato]

I basically agree with this -- the password system is already incredibly arbitrary and too easy to manipulate to be a good indicator or whether or not someone has actually read the rules/FAQ, and changing it to something equally arbitrary and easy to manipulate isn't going to make it any better. Something quizzing you on actual information in the FAQ, like how many Pokemon can you have, or asking which rule you like the best and why, would do a much better job, if you guys really want something like this in there.

[these_balls]

To both of you--gotcha! We'll definitely be going for something more Route-related in light of all this feedback. I really like the suggestions for questions you've given! That would be something that veteran players could do in a snap, and new players would have to look up. As for white-texting, we'll definitely consider it if the number of linked apps doesn't go down.

Thanks for taking the time!

[usedtelekinesis]

Possibly unpopular opinion time!

Honestly, I don't like being forced to put an app in comments because some apps can be really long and I think it's neater to have one comment with a link rather than a pile of comments if there's a lot to explain or a person/character gets wordy. It also lets people go back and fix typos or coding errors without having to delete and repost the entire application. I know that other games require it and I can understand the reasoning for it, but I personally don't enjoy it and it'd make me a little less likely to app for anyone else if I had to guess how much text filled a comment box bit by bit.

And as for the password system, while it makes sense for new players, having to search for something arbitrary every single time I write an app is a little frustrating. Unless there's been a rules change, I don't see the point in constantly requiring it when people who know about it probably just ctrl+F for relevant phrases to see what it is this time.

[these_balls]

Unpopular opinions are allowed!

I understand your reticence! I also think a link looks neater. But having it all organized in the apps post saves us the trouble of, for instance, custom comment pages or having to open several tabs at once, and helps us keep things in order. It also allows us to keep apps for reference--like I mentioned above, there were problems recently where someone believed we'd accepted a samples-less app, when the player had simply removed them after being accepted. Does that help clear up our reasoning? I know it may not change your personal opinion on the matter, but I just wanted to make sure you knew we weren't doing this out of the blue.

Noted on the passwords! What about FAQ- or rules- related quizzing, as other have suggested: would that be a good compromise?

[usedtelekinesis]

I understand your reasoning, I just don't like it personally. The incident with someone thinking there weren't sample was easily cleared up with a brief explanation on anoncomm, so I can't see why it was worth taking into consideration when it was one isolated incident. I've modded in the past and I think that multiplying tabs is just part of processing apps, but even that isn't too bad if it's kept in its own instance of whatever browser the person is using. Custom comment pages can be disabled easily enough too.

Mayfield asks for commented apps rather than linked, but I don't like it there either. Again, it's just a naggy personal preference that'll make me less likely to do anything with apps in the future.

And on the other issue, quizzing still doesn't make sense for anyone other than new players unless there's been a change recently. We all had to read them once, there's no point in making us read through everything multiple times, especially for the people who app and drop frequently.

[usedrage]

I'm not a mod, nor do I have any position of power or decision making in Route, but an "isolated incident" on anoncomm for Route is never just an isolated incident. If it happens once, and the mods make a mistake in the future, it will come back on them for not fixing the problem when it came up in the past. This isn't a new occurrence, not for anoncomm and not for the game.

This is from player perspective, mind you, and someone who constantly links her own apps. The mods are trying to change their reputation and enacting policies on things which have caused misunderstandings--and made not only the mods look bad, but other players. No one likes to have their page linked to anoncomm negatively, no matter what the subject of the negativity is.

There's pros and cons to each method, and while linking is easier for the players in the game, and seems less messy, it is less likely to cause misunderstandings if it's all laid out.

[miniworth]

I have a question regarding when, exactly, these changes take effect.

In one section you stated: This is a rule; as of today (the 11th of October), if your app is linked but not marked for spoilers, it will not be processed that week. Two sentences later, you claimed that you aren't changing anything... yet.

So when, exactly, are you going to put these changes into effect?

I'm actually glad to see action being taken, since this game was pretty idle in terms of moderation and regulation in the past few months, but the changes proposed here sound disconnected and, to be completely honest, announced in a cluttered and disorganized way.

Seconding Reine, I think there are other changes that are more relevant to the game (unanswered FAQ and inquiries, details of in-game functions that people are still unsure about more than a year after the game was opened) to address than how to submit an application...

or, and this is where I sound quite dickish, making it necessary for players, even ones who aren't new, to read through a long and

[sfaccendato]

I think they mean the "no changes yet" part specifically regarding the password system, not the linking. There's a gap between the two parts of the post where they're under different lj-cuts, and that sentence is the start of the second part.

[miniworth]

Ah, is that so? Then that was a misunderstanding on my part. Whoops. :|a

[these_balls]

That's totally my bad! I've separated the post a little better; now I hope it's easier to understand that the two are separate. I meant that the new rule concerning apps, because it's a small thing, is being instated now, but nothing is being done concerning passwords until we get feedback from our players and come to a decision. If you'd like a deadline, I'd say two, maybe three weeks at the very longest

[usedkunai]

Okay - I know some of this has been said, but rather than just pop an "agreed" or "disagreed" here, I'm just going to say it all to keep my own thoughts organized.

Regarding apps:

I personally dislike this, though the decision has been made already. There's a couple of reasons for this. The first is that it's really an inconvenience for the person posting the app. I understand you guys want to make it easier for yourselves and feel it's more organized, but... it's still not really a great solution. Posting apps in comments not only feels disjointed, but in general has so many flaws. It usually takes a couple of tries to even get the comments posted because you have to deal with the character limit. And if you make a typo, screw up coding, or anything else, you either have to edit a million times or delete the app entirely and repost it. I can safely say I have done this numerous times in games because I've messed up a link or caught a typo I made AFTER posting

[usedtelekinesis]

You put a lot of my opinions (posted a few comments up) into words clearer than I ended up being capable of. Thank you.

[these_balls]

Hey there! I'm going to try to be as clear and concise as possible, but it's the morning so I beg your pardon in case this turns out more disjointed than intended.

Regarding apps;

Is posting apps really that much of an inconvenience? I don't mean to sound rude by that question--it's just that in order to post an app, your options are either 'link it', or 'post it'. So presumably posting is what a potential apper would have done in the first place, had linking not been an option. Time-wise, they're relatively similar, and if you really want to avoid having to calculate character or word counts (and I absolutely cannot blame you on this, it's a pain), the simple solution is to divide your post by sections rather than word count. Having more (uneven) comments for your app might look messy, but it gets the job done more effectively than trying to figure out whether to cut things off at paragraph 4 or 5

[usedkunai]

It's not the worst inconvenience, it's not something that will deter me from apping (I think my current overall character count does that on its own). For me it's a matter of organization as aesthetics, which with stuff like apps just pings me in all the wrong ways. I tend to break things up by section when it's reasonable in apps if I have to do comment count. But then there's people who... overuse that and suddenly an app that can be 2/3 comments is 7 or 8 -- which is not only annoying to read, it's ugly to look at and wastes comments.

And I really, really hate having to edit/repost thing numerous times because I am a failure at typing and HTML. Don't get me wrong, I get the flaws with linking comments. It's just my personal preference and having a need to point out the things that are cons to it, because... well, there's a reason a lot of people link apps to begin with