Random Buffy Thought

[rahirah]

Post-Chosen stories where Buffy is a suicidal wreck because Spike is dead puzzle me. I can believe she had feelings for him at the end. I can believe those feelings were love, in the moment of his death. (I also think that if he had survived, she'd very likely have panicked and backpedaled and been very glad of that "no you don't" out, but that'

Comments

[therck]

She doesn't seem to have contemplated suicide when she sent Angel to hell at the end of season two, and I think that was worse than Spike's death. Not because of greater strength of emotion/attachment but because she was younger and less used to sacrifice and also because Spike made a choice, knowing what he was doing. Buffy would feel guilty about Spike, but by season seven, she has a very different view of life.

I'm pretty sure that Buffy contemplated suicide during season six, though. If she'd had to deal with the crap of season six earlier in her life, she might have done it, but I think she would be more likely to run. I think that running at the end of season two taught her that, no matter where she goes, she carries herself with her. But, in season six, she has memories, vague memories but still, of things being ever so much better while she was dead.

[rahirah]

Yeah, I do think that Buffy was not... trying very hard to avoid getting killed at some points in S6? In fact, I think that she may have been secretly thinking that Spike would kill her once he found out the chip didn't work on her, and whether she realized it or not, part of the reason she treated him as she did was an attempt to goad him into doing so. (By the time he finally did attack her, she no longer wanted him to.) But I don't think she would see that as the same thing as doing it herself.

[kassto]

Apologies if someone else has said this, as I don't have time right now to read all 31 comments..... I agree that generally Buffy is not the suicidal type, but I think she is coming pretty close in Once More With Feeling where she starts to dance and burn and Spike has to stop her....

[rahirah]

True. As I said, I'm not saying I think Buffy would never contemplate suicide ever, for any reason.

[infinitewhale]

I think she is coming pretty close in Once More With Feeling where she starts to dance and burn and Spike has to stop her....

He had to stop her because she, like the other victims, couldn't stop. It was part of the spell. Sweet wanted to see the slayer burn.

[kassto]

Yes, I'd say that is partly true. But the other part of that scene is that she is in utter despair and is kind of welcoming it. And if Spike only had to stop her because Sweet had inspelled her, why does he then have to try to persuade her that life is worth living. Her song, which reveals her true feelings, has been about how there is nothing for her to live for. Sweet's spell has just given her a tiny push.

[infinitewhale]

How does she welcome it? She sings that there isn't anything worth singing about in her life. That's not suicidal. A lot of people feel that way every day and they're not looking at gun prices. Mindless drudgery, repetitiveness at work and no light at the end of the tunnel. She's feeling bereft of passion, but she never expresses a desire to end it.

Spike trying to convince her doesn't have much to do with her at all. He saved her from Sweet's spell and then tried to tell her that life sucks but keep going. That's him talking, not her. It's the spell otherwise there'd other instances of it.

Cumulatively there's not a ton of support. She doesn't even take high-risk fights, a la, Faith jumping into vamp nest in S3. I think what really drives it home is Gone when she's actually faced with the idea of dying, she's scared. It's an indication she never really thought about it.

[kassto]

I disagree with your interpretation. I think she is suffering existential despair, which the spell in Once More With Feeling draws out into the open. Her discussions with Spike in and around this episode touch on this despair, particularly when she describes to him Heaven as a place where she was warm and loved and complete, and now being back alive is harsh and violent and hell-like. Her despair at the way the world is starts to grow at the end of season 5 and is evident in her discussions with Giles towards the end when she is faced with what she sees as impossible choices. Suicide and self-sacrifice have something of an overlap. And every Slayer has a death-wish! I don't think Buffy in herself is morbid and suicidal but her hero's journey and the Slayer destiny throw her into that place at the end of season 5 and through the first part of season 6. Going back to Barb's original point though, I don't think she'd ever be suicidal over a man/vampire.... :-)

[infinitewhale]

Her despair at the end of S5 was about what being a slayer accomplished, not about how the world is. Why keep fighting when it all gets taken away. If Dawn died, she was quitting.

particularly when she describes to him Heaven as a place where she was warm and loved and complete, and now being back alive is harsh and violent and hell-like

Not existential either. Great place vs bad place isn't necessarily a desire to return to great place at any cost. Especially given that we never see her attempt to. She could have simply let the demon kill her in that very episode.

Suicide and self-sacrifice have something of an overlap. And every Slayer has a death-wish!So she's suicidal in S2 when she takes poison to help the hospital kids? In terms of outcome, yes, it's taking your own life. In terms of intent, they're very different. She sacrifices herself for her sister in the last episode. Would another option be available, would they both climb down

[red_satin_doll]

The whole point is Spike misreading women--Cecily, the slayers and Buffy herself.

I'm coming to this way late but - YES AND THANK YOU.