I remember when I learned about it when I was 12, I just couldn't believe that it was like that, sometimes history is much more strange than fiction XD; Polish-Russian relations are pure love, aren't they? ;) Actually whole Eastern Europe's history is like some kind of black comedy, it's nice to see that someone not from here is interested in it :)
Eastern European history is fascinating! And hilarious and so horrible sometimes oh my God and, just, I mean, Poland. What are you doing, Poland. Whatever it is, please keep doing it.
Looking at some of our politicians actions, he keeps doing it :P
It's funny how this fandom gave me an opportunity to meet some Russian people and see our common history from their view, it's so different that it's hard to believe that we were talking about the same events XD;;;
Oh God, I just bet. I've had a similar experience with Russian-American history! And sometimes the events the two sides see differently aren't even the ones you expect, you know? Or they're things that seem SO OBVIOUS to you that when you find out that Russians totally disagree about those things, it's like, "...wait what? o.o"
That's why I'm a bit scared what Putin will say in Katyń this year(after his speech on anniversary of WWII beginning I don't expect anything nice) ;;;;
Anyway, I remember when I talked with my Lithuanian friend about history and we discovered that image of Russia that we learned from our schools is totally like LotR's Mordor XD;
Could you give me example of different views on historical events? It's very interesting!
(after his speech on anniversary of WWII beginning I don't expect anything nice)
I remember reading a transcript of that. ._. I think Putin should start reading Hetalia, it might help.
we discovered that image of Russia that we learned from our schools is totally like LotR's Mordor XD;
...Okay that's terrible so why am I laughing. Uhhh, yeah, pretty much! Even in America, we're usually taught that Russia is, you know, the Towering Nameless Faceless Monolith of Menace, Who Knows Neither Fear Nor Pity. It comes as a genuinely surprising thought to most Americans to think that, you know...Russians were afraid of the idea of nuclear war, too!
Which like, /facepalm, duh, but on the other hand, if you never think about it...you know?
Could you give me example of different views on historical events? It's very interesting!Oh God, yeah! I think the most striking example I've come across is the Berlin Airlift. That's when (according to Western historians) the USSR blockaded West Berlin, preventing food or fuel from entering the city in
( ... )
I remember reading a transcript of that. ._. I think Putin should start reading Hetalia, it might help. Wait-wait-I don't- what did he say? o.o
we're usually taught that Russia is, you know, the Towering Nameless Faceless Monolith of Menace, Who Knows Neither Fear Nor Pity
Russophobia is terrible like any anti-nation sentiment, but the casual russophobia nowadays brings more troubles to international relations than one could imagine. And you know what's really creeping me out? That just few years ago, everyone was, like "You used to be a monster and we suppose you still are. Even though you're not Soviet anymore. Er, but don't worry, you're not an enemy. So don't mind these missles in Europe, okay?". And Russia is, like "Sure, I get it. So, no matter what I do, I'm a monster. What else is new. All hope is false. *sulks* Well, you know what, you know what?! I'm just gonna do whatever I want, then!" *few years pass* Europe: "See? He's getting stronger! We've been telling you he's a monster!"
I couldn't find a transcript, but here's an article about his speech: Link
It was the...one where he was basically defending the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and...it was just... ._. Please don't do that, Mr. Putin. That is--that is not helpful. Especially not on the anniversary of the pact. Just...no.
(Of course it's easy to understand why he said it, and it was aimed at his domestic audience where I'm sure it was very well-received, but...please just go away, Putin. Please.)
Russophobia is terrible like any anti-nation sentiment, but the casual russophobia nowadays brings more troubles to international relations than one could imagine.
I think about this a lot, actually, and it...just...really infuriates me. Because just like Putin is not helping? Western world, you are not helping either! Anti-Russian rhetoric is just as pointless and damaging and blatant a political tool as the pro-Soviet/Stalinist rhetoric spread in Russia, and it makes me wish I could just...grab the whole West by the
( ... )
the benefits of international relationstikki2tokMarch 21 2010, 12:00:48 UTC
Please find the full text of the speech, not "analysis". Andrew Osborn quite popular with readers in Russia, and has a reputation for complete ignorant, perverts the facts for their own purposes. He not Russophile, not Russophobe, he simply wrote what will be read to the west. Russia really was the last country to sign a pact with Hitler. Pact has helped Russia to delay the war. It was an ugly solution, but necessary. What's wrong? sorry googlish.
Re: the benefits of international relationspyrrhiccomedyMarch 21 2010, 12:11:55 UTC
I have read the full text of the speech, when Putin first delivered it. And yes, I know about the West's policy of appeasement with Hitler. I am not trying to say that the USSR was the only Allied country which acted immorally in the years leading up to WW2. However, the terms of France and Great Britain's agreements with Nazi Germany, and the terms arrived at in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, were...very different, let's just say, when you consider the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact's secret protocols.
But, please, this is not a discussion I am interested in having with anyone I don't know personally and who I don't know I can trust to keep a calm and level head. I think it's best if we just leave it at this. God knows there are plenty of places on the internet where one can argue about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Re: the benefits of international relationstikki2tokMarch 21 2010, 12:25:50 UTC
I'm not trying to force you to change the view, this is not my business. But you've heard of the Curzon Line, of course? we have with Poland were rather complicated relationship. Poland was an ally of the USSR, was not even a friendly country. I do not see why Russia was obliged to act in the interests of Poland, but not their own. and sorry, do not belong here, of course.
Re: the benefits of international relationsradittzMarch 21 2010, 13:37:26 UTC
Main difference of peace treaties that other countries(including Poland) had with Germany that time, Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had part about spliting whole central/eastern Europe with all independent countries there between them :/
Actually whole Putin's speech was even worse when you think about it - there was part about unfair degradation of Germany after WWI becouse of territorial loses(that means coming back of Poland and other states on Europe's map) as a true reason of WWII >>
but yay - you have an example of typical Polish-Russian historical discussion ;) ah, could I add you to my f-list? Alatherna told me a lot of great stuff about you :)
Re: the benefits of international relationstikki2tokMarch 21 2010, 15:23:47 UTC
I'll give you a link to the Polish-Russia discussion. there is a lot of Katyn, Volyn, destroyed temples and other things. There are about a modern relationship. Russian readers there a little, but it is completely reflects the current interest of Russia to Poland. http://bezwodkinierazbieriosz.salon24.pl/155997,odpowiedz-lestata-na-sowiecka-wizje-historii but in general, I find it strange how the Poles are building their future. In any case, good luck.
Re: the benefits of international relationsradittzMarch 21 2010, 16:04:28 UTC
First, important thing - I like Russians as a nation, I think that we - as a Slavic people - have a lot in common, I was learning about this language and culture in school for four years and I really respect it. I have my personal reasons to hate Soviet system for thing that happened to my own family, but it isn't connected with my feelings for Russia.
I checked that link from you and it makes me feel sad when I read what some people write :/ I hope that one day we'll finally have a simmiliar view on the past events.
"but in general, I find it strange how the Poles are building their future. In any case, good luck." <- well, in my opinion our economical and political situation now is really good now and our borders are finally safe for some time, so we are doing fine, thank you and good luck :) I'm curious whet we are doing wrong with our future, if you'd like to expand this topic, please send me a pm.
Polish-Russian relations are pure love, aren't they? ;) Actually whole Eastern Europe's history is like some kind of black comedy, it's nice to see that someone not from here is interested in it :)
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It's funny how this fandom gave me an opportunity to meet some Russian people and see our common history from their view, it's so different that it's hard to believe that we were talking about the same events XD;;;
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Anyway, I remember when I talked with my Lithuanian friend about history and we discovered that image of Russia that we learned from our schools is totally like LotR's Mordor XD;
Could you give me example of different views on historical events? It's very interesting!
Reply
I remember reading a transcript of that. ._. I think Putin should start reading Hetalia, it might help.
we discovered that image of Russia that we learned from our schools is totally like LotR's Mordor XD;
...Okay that's terrible so why am I laughing. Uhhh, yeah, pretty much! Even in America, we're usually taught that Russia is, you know, the Towering Nameless Faceless Monolith of Menace, Who Knows Neither Fear Nor Pity. It comes as a genuinely surprising thought to most Americans to think that, you know...Russians were afraid of the idea of nuclear war, too!
Which like, /facepalm, duh, but on the other hand, if you never think about it...you know?
Could you give me example of different views on historical events? It's very interesting!Oh God, yeah! I think the most striking example I've come across is the Berlin Airlift. That's when (according to Western historians) the USSR blockaded West Berlin, preventing food or fuel from entering the city in ( ... )
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Oh, good lord XD;.
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Wait-wait-I don't- what did he say? o.o
we're usually taught that Russia is, you know, the Towering Nameless Faceless Monolith of Menace, Who Knows Neither Fear Nor Pity
Russophobia is terrible like any anti-nation sentiment, but the casual russophobia nowadays brings more troubles to international relations than one could imagine. And you know what's really creeping me out? That just few years ago, everyone was, like "You used to be a monster and we suppose you still are. Even though you're not Soviet anymore. Er, but don't worry, you're not an enemy. So don't mind these missles in Europe, okay?". And Russia is, like "Sure, I get it. So, no matter what I do, I'm a monster. What else is new. All hope is false. *sulks* Well, you know what, you know what?! I'm just gonna do whatever I want, then!" *few years pass* Europe: "See? He's getting stronger! We've been telling you he's a monster!"
...
LE WHYYYYY
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I couldn't find a transcript, but here's an article about his speech: Link
It was the...one where he was basically defending the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and...it was just... ._. Please don't do that, Mr. Putin. That is--that is not helpful. Especially not on the anniversary of the pact. Just...no.
(Of course it's easy to understand why he said it, and it was aimed at his domestic audience where I'm sure it was very well-received, but...please just go away, Putin. Please.)
Russophobia is terrible like any anti-nation sentiment, but the casual russophobia nowadays brings more troubles to international relations than one could imagine.
I think about this a lot, actually, and it...just...really infuriates me. Because just like Putin is not helping? Western world, you are not helping either! Anti-Russian rhetoric is just as pointless and damaging and blatant a political tool as the pro-Soviet/Stalinist rhetoric spread in Russia, and it makes me wish I could just...grab the whole West by the ( ... )
Reply
Russia really was the last country to sign a pact with Hitler.
Pact has helped Russia to delay the war. It was an ugly solution, but necessary. What's wrong?
sorry googlish.
Reply
But, please, this is not a discussion I am interested in having with anyone I don't know personally and who I don't know I can trust to keep a calm and level head. I think it's best if we just leave it at this. God knows there are plenty of places on the internet where one can argue about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
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But you've heard of the Curzon Line, of course? we have with Poland were rather complicated relationship. Poland was an ally of the USSR, was not even a friendly country. I do not see why Russia was obliged to act in the interests of Poland, but not their own.
and sorry, do not belong here, of course.
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Actually whole Putin's speech was even worse when you think about it - there was part about unfair degradation of Germany after WWI becouse of territorial loses(that means coming back of Poland and other states on Europe's map) as a true reason of WWII >>
but yay - you have an example of typical Polish-Russian historical discussion ;)
ah, could I add you to my f-list? Alatherna told me a lot of great stuff about you :)
Reply
but in general, I find it strange how the Poles are building their future. In any case, good luck.
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I checked that link from you and it makes me feel sad when I read what some people write :/ I hope that one day we'll finally have a simmiliar view on the past events.
"but in general, I find it strange how the Poles are building their future. In any case, good luck." <- well, in my opinion our economical and political situation now is really good now and our borders are finally safe for some time, so we are doing fine, thank you and good luck :)
I'm curious whet we are doing wrong with our future, if you'd like to expand this topic, please send me a pm.
Reply
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