Re: I see...dead bodiespurplefolkMarch 2 2006, 02:52:14 UTC
I like networks, and I like the quantitative grasp it gives me on social sciences.
And hey, why are the people over here obsessed with politics? Maybe I'm more pessimistic, but I've sort of found the opposite to be true. (Assuming over here = US?) People are apathetic, with about half, if that, of the elligible voters actually voting for national elections (which have a bigger turnout than local).
And then you have the people who are obsessed with something, but it pains me to call it politics-- the ones who gulp up a party platform and mindlessly chant this or that about a politician as if s/he's a celebrity. :\ Most of those don't like to acknowledge there's a world outside of the US to pay attention to as well.
Compared to Europe at least (haven't had personal experience in too many countries outside of that), I really don't perceive people here (overall) being that obsessed with politics or understanding them.
Yeah, I used to go to the neuro stuff when I was a student. They're fun.
Re: I see...dead bodiesmystictravelerMarch 2 2006, 04:54:32 UTC
Social nets If you come across something interesting (networks - social sciences), please let me know. The easier to read (read: quantitative), the better; though I wouldn't care for equations too much (usually they only use the y = m*x + c kind of equations ;P), lots of data would be appreciated.
Politics Really? Hmm.. maybe I'm too "lucky" to find those few who are interested in politics :P I certainly agree with you that the Americans have very diminished and shallow knowledge when it comes to foreign politics; the impression I get is they aren't aware of the existence of other parts of the world. Maybe this isn't very true after 9/11, but still...
In Europe it's a bit different. The people there are forced to be aware of different politio-economical systems, because of the nature of Europe. But the media there is screwed up as well.
So, what about you? Why are you interested in politics?
Neuro stuffWould you recommend'em then? Are there any other interesting seminars I can go to
( ... )
Re: I see...dead bodiespurplefolkMarch 2 2006, 05:26:28 UTC
More likely than not, media will be screwed up and biased anywhere. The more important thing is to cultivate a mindset in which you question and think about issues, rather than absorb w/e the news says at face value. I'm lucky in that I've had very politically interested parents, so it seems rather obvious for me to try to be informed. I will say that I think BBC is less messed up than Fox News though. :)
Unfortunately, post 911, people say things about Iraq. No one really mentions Afghanistan or even North Korea as much anymore. Fewer people than that mention the genocides in Africa. And even the left will fall back on slogans like, "no blood for oil"... when the Iraq situation obviously has a lot more to do with factors other than just oil. (E.g. OPEC switching to the Euro wouldn't exactly be in US interests.) I'm still slightly amazed that the media/government convinced so many people that Saudi and Afghani hijackers translated to invading Iraq. (I definitely don't deny the gvt had its reasons for invasion, but they
( ... )
Re: I see...dead minds!mystictravelerMarch 2 2006, 06:25:57 UTC
I've never watched Fox, but I heard from somebody that it's among the most biased stations. What do you think of Al Jazeera, by the way?
And you didn't answer why are you interested in politics?
I don't know, but for a moment, I felt like politics is like art. Everyone can interpret it the way they please, yet there are no "objective" measures to refer to. There is no distinctive way to verify whether the "reasons presented to the public" are authentic or not. Even if, after many years, one wants to trace back the reality, it's not possible; history is also screwed up.
Somehow I'm convinced that it's the same old game, trying to acquire power and collect resources. The primary weapon is oppression, but it comes in different colors and shapes: religion, tyranny, communism, capitalism or even democracy.
Even more worrisome is that there's no effective organized force (as far as I know), including the public education system, out there to fix it. Do you think they want it to be fixed?
Re: I see...dead minds!purplefolkMarch 2 2006, 07:58:17 UTC
I purposely watched Fox for two whole weeks around election time to see "the other side." Painful. I don't read Al Jazeera regularly, but they don't appear to be too insane, so it's useful to get a different perspective. (Say hi to the NSA now...)
I'm interested b/c I'm interested in the world around me, basically. It's not too much more complicated than that. I see it as a citizen's duty to be aware of what's not going right, since we theoretically have a voice in deciding what happens next.
Ever read the Dune series, btw? You might like it.
I don't know. I was going to make the offhand comment that it might not be in the best interest of "those in power" for the public to remain superficially involved at best. However, it's possible they also don't care what the public does-- we might not have as much influence as we'd like. (How much sway do we have over corporations and lobbyists, for example? How much does an individual vote really matter?) It's also possible they care, but not nearly enough to do anything, or have
( ... )
Re: I see...dead minds!mystictravelerMarch 2 2006, 18:02:14 UTC
A couple of weeks ago, there was a seminar in my school about voting machines. It was a very interesting talk, though the conclusions were a bit too gloomy. For instance, the speaker (who's a professor of computer science and has a degree in humanities, too) mentioned that the "exit polls" gave perfectly matching results, except in 6 states - where electronic voting machines were implemented (inc. FL of course). In those states, the exit polls gave opposite results
( ... )
Re: I see...dead minds!purplefolkMarch 2 2006, 22:12:25 UTC
Don't get me started on those voting machine things. Every time I read another article talking about all the security holes and technical glitches, it's honestly frightening. Like, where did democracy go?
I really do think you'd like Dune-- it's not just sci-fi, but also politics. The first book is really the best, so try that and if you like it, read the rest. (Do yourself a favor and don't bother with any of the prequels.)
I don't really know the situation either. But as far as speculations go, I'm willing to agree that yours is most likely the case globally, including the US.
If you notice everyone else being corrupt, couldn't you think, "But I'M different. I will change everything!" As a starting point, it could be even be more motivation. Or perhaps the system is too muddled and full of inertia to accomplish much as one person... and you may need several good people, who furthermore agree with each other on how to fix things, to do anything. So maybe they end up being disillusioned as well?
Re: I see...dead votes!mystictravelerMarch 3 2006, 02:03:14 UTC
Voting machines.. voting machines.. voting machines.. voting machines.. voting machines.. Talk! I want to listen to what you've got say about this ;)
I didn't quite get what you meant by "security holes and technical glitches," but I was referring to intentional manipulation. Basically some state people, who are responsible for choosing the voting machines, were either employees at the company, or they were offered a position at the company when they retire from their state job. There were even more horrifying stories about similar situations in the army.
Moving to dune, do you know where I can get a cheap second-hand copy? So far I used to buy books online, but I realized that one can get them much cheaper from a bookstore. I just don't know any good bookstores around here.
If you notice everyone else being corrupt, couldn't you think, "But I'M different. I will change everything!"I think you're being too optimistic/idealistic about this. Let's see.. if you have a bunch of corrupt people controlling the scene, then some good guy
( ... )
Re: I see...dead votes!purplefolkMarch 3 2006, 03:54:56 UTC
Ah, I was being a little tongue-in-cheek. Security holes = suspiciously intentional(?) backdoors. Technical glitches = votes registered before voting actually began, mysterious Kerry --> Bush conversions, etc. I really want to believe the last presidential election was fair and not sound like a conspiracy nut, but... the fact that I can't dismiss tampering as being ludicrious is enough to make me quite er, discontent with the situation. You'd think the public would need to be massively appeased with an issue like this. (And forget 2000-- I still think Gore won, and the Supreme Court basically decided for us
( ... )
Re: I see...dead votes!mystictravelerMarch 3 2006, 04:43:19 UTC
An interesting question would be "would it be justified if some hackers got into those machines and made sure they're not tampered with?" I know the question sounds contradictory (hacking in to make sure they're foolproof - heh
( ... )
Re: I see...dead votes!purplefolkMarch 3 2006, 05:24:37 UTC
Oh, you mean like white hats? ;) I think the Daily Show did a spoof on that.
Hehe, in Russian culture, you're a freak if you don't talk about conspiracy (and this isn't restricted to gvt). Probably b/c people are afraid of sounding irrational and paranoid. I personally prefer to restrict myself to statements like "It's possible that the votes were tampered with" rather than "omg! They were tampered with!" I know that sounds like a weak statement, but logically speaking, even admitting something is possible is pretty significant. Because, honestly, it should not be possible that these things can happen, regardless of if they did. In other words, I'm in favor of letting people audit the code and results
( ... )
Re: I see...dead votes!mystictravelerMarch 3 2006, 07:04:24 UTC
Seems like I will submit to the pressures and buy a TV set! :P
Hmm.. 80F is where I start to bloom ;) But what's there to be seen in the cold? It gets dark by 17:00 and that's it. Where do you usually go exploring when you go to the city? I've tried some Brooklyn, too.. but there's almost nothing but groceries and delis there! :P
Sheesh, this guy has some interesting stuff, although my first impression about him personally isn't very positive. Do you have the password to his slides?
Yes, I read (most of) it. Too "american" for my taste I'd say. It reminded me of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance." What do you think of it, GEB, I mean?
Reply
And hey, why are the people over here obsessed with politics?
Maybe I'm more pessimistic, but I've sort of found the opposite to be true. (Assuming over here = US?) People are apathetic, with about half, if that, of the elligible voters actually voting for national elections (which have a bigger turnout than local).
And then you have the people who are obsessed with something, but it pains me to call it politics-- the ones who gulp up a party platform and mindlessly chant this or that about a politician as if s/he's a celebrity. :\ Most of those don't like to acknowledge there's a world outside of the US to pay attention to as well.
Compared to Europe at least (haven't had personal experience in too many countries outside of that), I really don't perceive people here (overall) being that obsessed with politics or understanding them.
Yeah, I used to go to the neuro stuff when I was a student. They're fun.
Reply
If you come across something interesting (networks - social sciences), please let me know. The easier to read (read: quantitative), the better; though I wouldn't care for equations too much (usually they only use the y = m*x + c kind of equations ;P), lots of data would be appreciated.
Politics
Really? Hmm.. maybe I'm too "lucky" to find those few who are interested in politics :P I certainly agree with you that the Americans have very diminished and shallow knowledge when it comes to foreign politics; the impression I get is they aren't aware of the existence of other parts of the world. Maybe this isn't very true after 9/11, but still...
In Europe it's a bit different. The people there are forced to be aware of different politio-economical systems, because of the nature of Europe. But the media there is screwed up as well.
So, what about you? Why are you interested in politics?
Neuro stuffWould you recommend'em then? Are there any other interesting seminars I can go to ( ... )
Reply
Unfortunately, post 911, people say things about Iraq. No one really mentions Afghanistan or even North Korea as much anymore. Fewer people than that mention the genocides in Africa. And even the left will fall back on slogans like, "no blood for oil"... when the Iraq situation obviously has a lot more to do with factors other than just oil. (E.g. OPEC switching to the Euro wouldn't exactly be in US interests.) I'm still slightly amazed that the media/government convinced so many people that Saudi and Afghani hijackers translated to invading Iraq. (I definitely don't deny the gvt had its reasons for invasion, but they ( ... )
Reply
And you didn't answer why are you interested in politics?
I don't know, but for a moment, I felt like politics is like art. Everyone can interpret it the way they please, yet there are no "objective" measures to refer to. There is no distinctive way to verify whether the "reasons presented to the public" are authentic or not. Even if, after many years, one wants to trace back the reality, it's not possible; history is also screwed up.
Somehow I'm convinced that it's the same old game, trying to acquire power and collect resources. The primary weapon is oppression, but it comes in different colors and shapes: religion, tyranny, communism, capitalism or even democracy.
Even more worrisome is that there's no effective organized force (as far as I know), including the public education system, out there to fix it.
Do you think they want it to be fixed?
Reply
I'm interested b/c I'm interested in the world around me, basically. It's not too much more complicated than that. I see it as a citizen's duty to be aware of what's not going right, since we theoretically have a voice in deciding what happens next.
Ever read the Dune series, btw? You might like it.
I don't know. I was going to make the offhand comment that it might not be in the best interest of "those in power" for the public to remain superficially involved at best. However, it's possible they also don't care what the public does-- we might not have as much influence as we'd like. (How much sway do we have over corporations and lobbyists, for example? How much does an individual vote really matter?) It's also possible they care, but not nearly enough to do anything, or have ( ... )
Reply
Reply
I really do think you'd like Dune-- it's not just sci-fi, but also politics. The first book is really the best, so try that and if you like it, read the rest. (Do yourself a favor and don't bother with any of the prequels.)
I don't really know the situation either. But as far as speculations go, I'm willing to agree that yours is most likely the case globally, including the US.
If you notice everyone else being corrupt, couldn't you think, "But I'M different. I will change everything!" As a starting point, it could be even be more motivation. Or perhaps the system is too muddled and full of inertia to accomplish much as one person... and you may need several good people, who furthermore agree with each other on how to fix things, to do anything. So maybe they end up being disillusioned as well?
Reply
I didn't quite get what you meant by "security holes and technical glitches," but I was referring to intentional manipulation. Basically some state people, who are responsible for choosing the voting machines, were either employees at the company, or they were offered a position at the company when they retire from their state job. There were even more horrifying stories about similar situations in the army.
Moving to dune, do you know where I can get a cheap second-hand copy? So far I used to buy books online, but I realized that one can get them much cheaper from a bookstore. I just don't know any good bookstores around here.
If you notice everyone else being corrupt, couldn't you think, "But I'M different. I will change everything!"I think you're being too optimistic/idealistic about this. Let's see.. if you have a bunch of corrupt people controlling the scene, then some good guy ( ... )
Reply
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Hehe, in Russian culture, you're a freak if you don't talk about conspiracy (and this isn't restricted to gvt). Probably b/c people are afraid of sounding irrational and paranoid. I personally prefer to restrict myself to statements like "It's possible that the votes were tampered with" rather than "omg! They were tampered with!" I know that sounds like a weak statement, but logically speaking, even admitting something is possible is pretty significant. Because, honestly, it should not be possible that these things can happen, regardless of if they did. In other words, I'm in favor of letting people audit the code and results ( ... )
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Eep, I'm backwards. In anything over 80F, I start withering, especially with NYC humidity. I'm much better off in the cold. :)
I took a course with this guy:
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/
and a lot of the material is still online:
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/consciousness/
Ever read Godel, Escher, Bach?
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Hmm.. 80F is where I start to bloom ;)
But what's there to be seen in the cold? It gets dark by 17:00 and that's it. Where do you usually go exploring when you go to the city? I've tried some Brooklyn, too.. but there's almost nothing but groceries and delis there! :P
Sheesh, this guy has some interesting stuff, although my first impression about him personally isn't very positive. Do you have the password to his slides?
Yes, I read (most of) it. Too "american" for my taste I'd say. It reminded me of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance." What do you think of it, GEB, I mean?
Reply
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