Re: I see...dead votes!purplefolkMarch 3 2006, 05:24:37 UTC
Oh, you mean like white hats? ;) I think the Daily Show did a spoof on that.
Hehe, in Russian culture, you're a freak if you don't talk about conspiracy (and this isn't restricted to gvt). Probably b/c people are afraid of sounding irrational and paranoid. I personally prefer to restrict myself to statements like "It's possible that the votes were tampered with" rather than "omg! They were tampered with!" I know that sounds like a weak statement, but logically speaking, even admitting something is possible is pretty significant. Because, honestly, it should not be possible that these things can happen, regardless of if they did. In other words, I'm in favor of letting people audit the code and results.
The Strand is on Broadway and 12th, I think. http://www.strandbooks.com/home/ so you could PATH to 14th or 9th and it's a 10-15 min walk if you're not lazy. (PATH to 14th and take L over to Union Sq if you are lazy, and it's under 5 min walk from there)
I'm an idealist b/c I still think the world, while messed up in many different ways, is still redeemable (somehow). I certainly don't have all the answers (I don't even feel I have a couple of them), but I still believe it's possible to make a positive impact-- and no matter how small that impact is, it's not insignificant. That, and I suspect I may be very naive, no matter how cynical I think I am.
I skimmed through. I've heard similar stuff before, like a professor saying consciousness is merely Brownian motion of Calcium ions through neuro membrane channels. Intuitively, I like the idea of emergent behavior, although I doubt we'll come close to proving that one way or another. The thing is, although science almost inevitably accrues more knowledge, is it possible bridge the subjective/objective gap? If not, it may leave room for metaphysical things like (the subjective perception of) free will.
Re: I see...dead votes!mystictravelerMarch 3 2006, 06:18:20 UTC
What is the Daily Show? (Excuse my ignorance)
True, I do understand what you mean by sticking to those less-dramatic statements and that "those" things shouldn't possibly happen. I'd rather adapt the entropy point of view. If it happens, then nature allows it to happen. The steady-state solution to the elliptic partial differential equation (with Dirichlet or Neumann boundary conditions) is either zero or a constant - heat death!
Thanks for the info. I think I passed by that bookstore once.. do they have like, several stands for used books outside the shop? And I don't think I'm lazy.. on my second weekend here, I took the PATH to WTC then walked all the way up to Columbia University :) It was still summer, so walking for long times was no problem. Now, even with my heavy coat on, I can't walk for more than 45mins :/
Well, maybe your view to the world is better than mine. I think I know the way.. I think I know the answer in the steady-state.. I know I might be wrong, but till somebody proves me wrong, I have no reason to change my view.
Though this "positive impact" thing still makes me feel itchy. One part of me believes that indeed any good change, no matter how small, isn't insignificant, but another part believes that good or evil, it's all the same.. this is life and doesn't allow for extremes (ideal situations, like domination of good over evil or vice versa)
Do you have other resources on the subject of consciousness? It's one of those questions that can keep me literally awake for several nights. In my opinion, I think we need to solve the conscious "I" problem first before trying to tackle the free-will problem. Maybe, just a maybe, if we can know what that "I" really is, we can find the mapping function from subjective to objective. Although still what we call objective cannot be proven to be indeed objective (Goedl's argument about the incompleteness of mathematics)
Re: I see...dead votes!mystictravelerMarch 3 2006, 07:04:24 UTC
Seems like I will submit to the pressures and buy a TV set! :P
Hmm.. 80F is where I start to bloom ;) But what's there to be seen in the cold? It gets dark by 17:00 and that's it. Where do you usually go exploring when you go to the city? I've tried some Brooklyn, too.. but there's almost nothing but groceries and delis there! :P
Sheesh, this guy has some interesting stuff, although my first impression about him personally isn't very positive. Do you have the password to his slides?
Yes, I read (most of) it. Too "american" for my taste I'd say. It reminded me of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance." What do you think of it, GEB, I mean?
Hehe, in Russian culture, you're a freak if you don't talk about conspiracy (and this isn't restricted to gvt). Probably b/c people are afraid of sounding irrational and paranoid. I personally prefer to restrict myself to statements like "It's possible that the votes were tampered with" rather than "omg! They were tampered with!" I know that sounds like a weak statement, but logically speaking, even admitting something is possible is pretty significant. Because, honestly, it should not be possible that these things can happen, regardless of if they did. In other words, I'm in favor of letting people audit the code and results.
The Strand is on Broadway and 12th, I think. http://www.strandbooks.com/home/ so you could PATH to 14th or 9th and it's a 10-15 min walk if you're not lazy. (PATH to 14th and take L over to Union Sq if you are lazy, and it's under 5 min walk from there)
I'm an idealist b/c I still think the world, while messed up in many different ways, is still redeemable (somehow). I certainly don't have all the answers (I don't even feel I have a couple of them), but I still believe it's possible to make a positive impact-- and no matter how small that impact is, it's not insignificant. That, and I suspect I may be very naive, no matter how cynical I think I am.
I skimmed through. I've heard similar stuff before, like a professor saying consciousness is merely Brownian motion of Calcium ions through neuro membrane channels. Intuitively, I like the idea of emergent behavior, although I doubt we'll come close to proving that one way or another. The thing is, although science almost inevitably accrues more knowledge, is it possible bridge the subjective/objective gap? If not, it may leave room for metaphysical things like (the subjective perception of) free will.
Reply
True, I do understand what you mean by sticking to those less-dramatic statements and that "those" things shouldn't possibly happen. I'd rather adapt the entropy point of view. If it happens, then nature allows it to happen. The steady-state solution to the elliptic partial differential equation (with Dirichlet or Neumann boundary conditions) is either zero or a constant - heat death!
Thanks for the info. I think I passed by that bookstore once.. do they have like, several stands for used books outside the shop? And I don't think I'm lazy.. on my second weekend here, I took the PATH to WTC then walked all the way up to Columbia University :) It was still summer, so walking for long times was no problem. Now, even with my heavy coat on, I can't walk for more than 45mins :/
Well, maybe your view to the world is better than mine. I think I know the way.. I think I know the answer in the steady-state.. I know I might be wrong, but till somebody proves me wrong, I have no reason to change my view.
Though this "positive impact" thing still makes me feel itchy. One part of me believes that indeed any good change, no matter how small, isn't insignificant, but another part believes that good or evil, it's all the same.. this is life and doesn't allow for extremes (ideal situations, like domination of good over evil or vice versa)
Do you have other resources on the subject of consciousness? It's one of those questions that can keep me literally awake for several nights. In my opinion, I think we need to solve the conscious "I" problem first before trying to tackle the free-will problem. Maybe, just a maybe, if we can know what that "I" really is, we can find the mapping function from subjective to objective. Although still what we call objective cannot be proven to be indeed objective (Goedl's argument about the incompleteness of mathematics)
Reply
Eep, I'm backwards. In anything over 80F, I start withering, especially with NYC humidity. I'm much better off in the cold. :)
I took a course with this guy:
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/
and a lot of the material is still online:
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/consciousness/
Ever read Godel, Escher, Bach?
Reply
Hmm.. 80F is where I start to bloom ;)
But what's there to be seen in the cold? It gets dark by 17:00 and that's it. Where do you usually go exploring when you go to the city? I've tried some Brooklyn, too.. but there's almost nothing but groceries and delis there! :P
Sheesh, this guy has some interesting stuff, although my first impression about him personally isn't very positive. Do you have the password to his slides?
Yes, I read (most of) it. Too "american" for my taste I'd say. It reminded me of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance." What do you think of it, GEB, I mean?
Reply
Leave a comment