in fact, I have watched the pilot. I'm still right.
I read through this post and would like not to let it pass without comment. In the first part of my response I will do my best to explain how Dean’s behavior toward Sam meets a lot of the criteria for intimate partner abuse, because the OP does not seem to grasp the argument we are making. I will assume good faith, though - this is a difficult
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I'm curious to know whether you think the writers have deliberately written Dean has an abusive character? Over the years they have added canon to suggest that John was possibly abusive - certainly neglectful. Do you think they've just added canon over the years that have built up a picture of an abusive person or that they've deliberately set out to make him one?Authorial intent is slippery, and I don't think I really read enough interviews to go as far as one can with it, so all of this comes with a big HIGHLY SPECULATIVE disclaimer. On top of that, this is the kind of thing that happens slowly and people don't usually notice IRL, otherwise everyone would bail on abusers quickly and with ease, and I think it also got worse and worse over time and the people who lived with Dean in their heads could easily have been lacking in perspective in a similar way ( ... )
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The one where they work together, they make each other human, they share the crappiness and they appreciate the sacrifices each other has made. The one where they prank each other, share a laugh, a beer and a joke. I've seen many say this relationship is dead.I don't think it's dead, so much as I think we're finally acknowledging that it wasn't what it looked like. It wasn't an equal give-and-take partnership. It's just that the power imbalance was buried - Dean wants to hunt, Sam doesn't want to hunt, the show is about hunting so we take it as a given that Dean will get his way 100%. Dean really didn't appreciate the sacrifices Sam has made, not nearly so much as Sam has made a point to appreciate him, but nobody articulates that point so it skates by the audience. Sam is always `~learning some lesson~ about the relationship between John and Dean, while Dean still refuses to acknowledge that John was extremely abusive to Sam as well - and people still take Dean's skewed POV as evidence that John objectively was a loving ( ... )
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Last query. Dean's says he's poison. I figure he's meaning that people around him die (or "worse" he says referring to Sam). I wonder if this means he's beginning to acknowledge his pattern of abuse - or his nature? Or is it mostly just him thinking he's cursed and what happens to him (and around him) is out of his control? (you don't need to answer that. I'm just pondering stuff).
My 2 cents on that is that there's a big difference between "I AM X" and "I DID X." You know? If Dean IS poison, then he can't be held morally accountable. It's still an attempt to get Sam to blame the universe and not him.
And also, I feel that Dean does deserve some sympathy. He has been created like this (from his upbringing and extraordinary life etc) and I genuinely feel that he wants to do the right thing by Sam and others that he loves - he just doesn't know how.I mean, I don't think that's unreasonable? It's not that people who do bad things become instantly unsympathetic. I think SPN does a really good job with this, actually. I have sympathy ( ... )
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I don't think it's dead, so much as I think we're finally acknowledging that it wasn't what it looked like. It wasn't an equal give-and-take partnership.
It was never an equal partnership. Dean's put-downs of Sam have been there since the pilot and as you so aptly pointed out have gotten progressively worse.
I do think Dean learned it from John but he can't use that excuse any longer. He's an adult or should be.
His lack of self-worth is not Sam's fault but John's. Sam's lack of self-worth is due primarily to Dean although John has some culpability. That said, people still have free will and can change how they act. They just have to want to. Dean's not there yet. I hope the Mark helps him get there.
I see a few more people on other sites starting to get it. It's, however, a slow process and I hope the writers make it more clear with time so that it becomes harder for the Dean stans to deny what he's been doing.
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Or even if we saw him try. He hasn't. He's wallowed, and decided that his miserable feelings count because, um, because! and kept right on being abusive.
I see a few more people on other sites starting to get it. It's, however, a slow process and I hope the writers make it more clear with time so that it becomes harder for the Dean stans to deny what he's been doing.
Yes! I'm seeing a lot of people frustrated at the show because only some of fandom gets it? But from where I sit....OMG PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO GET IT, HALLELUJAH, WELL DONE S9!
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