Budgie with thyroid or liver disease

[tarinael]

Our budgie Winter has been giving us quite the scare for the past few months, and today's vet visit left me with more questions than I started off with. So I figured I'd post here and get your thoughts.

Comments

[zandperl]

I'd ask a billion questions if it were my bird, do what research I could about the two potential conditions in birds AND in humans, and consider things for a week before making a decision (unless the vet said that a quicker choice is necessary to save his life

[tarinael]

I'm with you on the million questions. My husband was the one bringing him to the vet today, I wasn't there. And even if I was, it would've been such a shock that I wouldn't have been able to think of many questions to ask. The one that I can answer now is why she advocates separating him from the flock

[zandperl]

I wouldn't call it being a skeptic, I'd call it being an informed consumer. It's much easier to comply with doctor's orders if you understand them and agree with them. And there's always going to be mistakes, so if you understand the reason behind the directions you're given, you can better decide how to fix those mistakes

[tarinael]

She didn't suggest any other ways of administering it to him. I was just wondering that, too... they drink so little. How do I know that he got enough? Isn't it a waste to use a pill just to have most of it get dumped down the drain? And for that matter, what impact would 5-10 years (depending on how long he lives) of daily thyroid water being dumped down the drain have on the local water table? There's gotta be another way

[calzephyr77]

Poor little Winter. I commend you for taking him to a vet and seeking a second opinion. I can't remember if our vet, Dr. W, tested Moxie for thyroid problems back in the day. Dr. W has mentioned in the past that he has taken blood from finches, so I would be wondering why enough blood couldn't be taken from a budgie. The one blood panel that we had done with Moxie was inconclusive :-( I wish you and Winter much luck and hope you will post an update.

[banshea]

That's a good thing to ask a vet about to be clear on, but I do know that different tests require different sample sizes. Sounds like the particular blood test the vet wants to do is impossible for the amount of blood it requires, whereas a different blood test would work fine.

[tarinael]

Yeah, so far two vets have told me that this test is impossible for budgies. I have a friend who works at a vet's office who will be asking at work today so, we'll see what they say... but if they say no also, that'll make three.

[tarinael]

He has an appointment with a different vet for a second opinion on Monday at 4pm. I talked to a tech there though and she's already told me that they can't do this test on a budgie. It bothers me because I wonder how we'll get a conclusive "it's the thyroid" or "it's the liver" without it... and I hate to take a shot in the dark like this.

[banshea]

Man... Budgies are such great little birds with such untrustworthy little bodies. :/

Separation from the flock isn't necessarily a horribly traumatic sentence. Since there's nothing to indicate that sharing airspace is an issue, Winter can be kept in a cage next to the rest of your budgies and have plenty of opportunity to chatter and interact with the other birds. From what you've said so far, it also sounds like short amounts of time out with the others isn't going to be a problem, so long as everybody ends up in the right cage and nobody has a chance to drink the wrong water. He might miss being able to preen and play with his flock, but visual and vocal contact will fulfill most of his socialization needs.

[tarinael]

Our living room is our computers on one side (we're gamers) and the budgie cage directly across from us, with their 2 play cages to the left of it. Most people watch TV while playing but us? The spazzes (as we call them) are way more entertaining. My husband and I are always trying to point out funny things that they do, but by the time we finish the sentence, they've gotten distracted and started doing something else - which just makes whatever they were doing even funnier.

I've had to separate one or two on occasions before. I put them in a cage right next to the main cage and sigh, everyone freaked out - it's crazy how interconnected these 6 birds are. I'm sure they'd adjust in time, they do have the attention span of a gnat. Especially if I add crinkle paper. I just feel bad to watch them each pacing back and forth at the cage walls looking at each other and frantically flock calling. =/

[tarinael]

7 hours later and my opinion on separating him is starting to change. Thyroxine or not, I'm wondering if separation for a few weeks might be in his best interest

[banshea]

These all sound like excellent reasons to separate him from the flock. I don't think you're overreacting at all.

I've never heard of Harrison's liver supplement, and I'm not sure the vet tech you quoted above was agreeing that they exist, she(?) only said that Harrison's is a good brand. But I could easily be wrong on that point.

[kynekh_amagire]

I had a budgie with liver problems a few years ago. My ex wrote about it extensively and tangentially here. As with Winter, the first signs with Ciatol were beak/nail overgrowth, beak bruises and constant molting. He was young enough that we were able to manage him for several years just by changing his diet. The bruises and molting issues cleared up, but he needed regular beak trimming for the rest of his life. Sadly, I don't know what happened to him because my ex dumped all of the birds on a so-called "rescue" during the divorce, and we were only able to get some of them back, but the "rescue's" website lists him as adopted, so he may still be alive out there somewhere.

Anyway, it sounds like you're doing the right things, I just wanted to say "you're not alone". I would definitely get a second opinion before starting thyroid hormone replacement. My avian vet asserts that liver disease is common in budgerigars.

[tarinael]

Thank you! I remember reading about what happened with your ex. :( Bah. That sucked