Стенограмма Нюрнбергского процесса. Том XIV.
ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY-EIGHTH DAY
Friday, 24 May 1946
MR. DODD: Mr. Witness, would you agree that from time to time members of your Hitler Youth sang songs and otherwise conducted themselves in a manner which certainly was hostile to organized religious institutions?
VON SCHIRACH: I do not intend to deny that isolated members behaved in that way during the early years of the National Socialist State, but I should like to add a short explanation.
In the early years I took into my movement millions of young people from Marxist organizations and the atheist movement, et cetera; and, of course, it was not possible in the space of 2 or 3 or 4 years' time to discipline all of them completely. But I think I may say that after a certain date, say 1936, things of that sort no longer happened.
MR. DODD: Well, I thought perhaps we could say, anyway, that in 1935 this sort of thing was going on and perhaps save some time. Would you agree to that? They were singing songs such as, "Pope and Rabbi shall yield, we want to be pagans again" and that sort of business. Are you familiar with that? Do you know that kind of thing that came to the attention of the Minister of Justice from the prosecuting authority in Baden.
VON SCHIRACH: No.
MR. DODD: Do you know that they sang a song published in the songbook "Blut und Ehre," a song saying, "We want to kill the priest, out with your spear, forward; set the red cock on the cloister roof." You know that old song?"
VON SCHIRACH: That is a song dating back to the Thirty Years' War and sung by the youth movement for many, many years, even before the first World War.
MR. DODD: I know, you have told me that before. I am trying to cut that down. Will you agree that your people were singing it in 1933, 1934, and 1935, to the extent that when clerics objected they were subjected themselves to the prosecuting authorities for interfering and criticizing? That is how important it was.
VON SCHIRACH: I know, as I have already said, that this song dates back to the Thirty Years' War. It was sometimes sung by young people in the years 1933-1934. I tried to abolish this song, but I cannot give you any information as to special complaints which were lodged about it.
MR. DODD: I do not think that we have made clear that these songs were put out in a book which you published for the Hitler Youth to sing in these days. Do you agree to that?
VON SCHIRACH: I think it is possible, as for many years this song was included in every collection. It is a song which appeared in the first songbooks of the Wandervogel movement in 1898.
MR. DODD: I am not really interested in the history. All I am trying to establish is that in your songbook for your young people this song was present, that it was sung, that when the Church people complained, they were subjected to the prosecuting authorities for complaining.
VON SCHIRACH: I must dispute the last point.
Friday, 24 May 1946
MR. DODD: Mr. Witness, would you agree that from time to time members of your Hitler Youth sang songs and otherwise conducted themselves in a manner which certainly was hostile to organized religious institutions?
VON SCHIRACH: I do not intend to deny that isolated members behaved in that way during the early years of the National Socialist State, but I should like to add a short explanation.
In the early years I took into my movement millions of young people from Marxist organizations and the atheist movement, et cetera; and, of course, it was not possible in the space of 2 or 3 or 4 years' time to discipline all of them completely. But I think I may say that after a certain date, say 1936, things of that sort no longer happened.
MR. DODD: Well, I thought perhaps we could say, anyway, that in 1935 this sort of thing was going on and perhaps save some time. Would you agree to that? They were singing songs such as, "Pope and Rabbi shall yield, we want to be pagans again" and that sort of business. Are you familiar with that? Do you know that kind of thing that came to the attention of the Minister of Justice from the prosecuting authority in Baden.
VON SCHIRACH: No.
MR. DODD: Do you know that they sang a song published in the songbook "Blut und Ehre," a song saying, "We want to kill the priest, out with your spear, forward; set the red cock on the cloister roof." You know that old song?"
VON SCHIRACH: That is a song dating back to the Thirty Years' War and sung by the youth movement for many, many years, even before the first World War.
MR. DODD: I know, you have told me that before. I am trying to cut that down. Will you agree that your people were singing it in 1933, 1934, and 1935, to the extent that when clerics objected they were subjected themselves to the prosecuting authorities for interfering and criticizing? That is how important it was.
VON SCHIRACH: I know, as I have already said, that this song dates back to the Thirty Years' War. It was sometimes sung by young people in the years 1933-1934. I tried to abolish this song, but I cannot give you any information as to special complaints which were lodged about it.
MR. DODD: I do not think that we have made clear that these songs were put out in a book which you published for the Hitler Youth to sing in these days. Do you agree to that?
VON SCHIRACH: I think it is possible, as for many years this song was included in every collection. It is a song which appeared in the first songbooks of the Wandervogel movement in 1898.
MR. DODD: I am not really interested in the history. All I am trying to establish is that in your songbook for your young people this song was present, that it was sung, that when the Church people complained, they were subjected to the prosecuting authorities for complaining.
VON SCHIRACH: I must dispute the last point.