Spike and Angel's Sexuality
So, I got into a debate on another forum on whether or not Spike's bisexual. The other poster said that he was deeply passionate for both men and women, and I insisted that Angel is singular, not plural, and that doesn't make Spike bi, since that implies sexual attraction to some men, when I think that Spike's feelings for Angel surpass basic sexuality, and involve actual feelings. However, I am aware that some don't even acknowledge that in canon, in spite of many things pointing to the contrary, particularly the line in "Power Play" about their "one time" of official intimacy.
Miriam: "What makes you think Spike's "100% straight"? Just doing the math, if
you're a man who's been intimate with another man, you're something
less than 100% anything *g*."
Me: "But Spike is.
Spike is very much into women, and *not* men. But that isn't to say he isn't comfortable in his sexuality that he could be intimate with one--count 'em one--guy. Sexuality isn't this cut and dry thing, though I don't think I'm fully capable of explaining that eloquently...
I have a guy friend, who is completely straight, but is comfortable enough with himself and his sexuality to say that he would "go gay" for James (Marsters). He's not into men in the least, but if asked that question, he could give a straight answer. I think that many (straight people) can, actually.
There's also the fact that reducing Spike's feelings for Angel to something as simple as sexual attraction, I think, is limited of their relationship. This isn't just libido, but genuine feelings for someone, and that surpasses sex. There's genuine hurt in "School Hard" for instance, when Spike punches Angel in the face in that hallway, realizing that yes, that still wasn't Angelus. To me, it showed he'd been missed.
And while a case can be made for Angel(us) being bi (not a strong case, but a case), I don't believe the same is true for Spike. There is nothing in the series beyond his feelings for Angel to ever suggest that he was interested in men in general."
Miriam: "If you assume Angel's comment about deviancy is not meant to suggest to
William that he desires him sexually, then you'd have to read that
backward and assume that Angel wasn't, at the time, sleeping with Dru
and with Darla and was only referencing the fact that he went hunting
and killing with them, and yet I think that there's evidence that he
was doing more than that with them both. And there's no reason at all
to think that Angel was straight."
Me: "Again, that's Angel we're talking about, and I didn't disagree with you. William, however, was not aware of Angelus' sexual relationship with Dru, nor are we even sure he fully knew who Darla was at that point."
Miriam: "As for William only having eyes for Dru, the way that he was looking at
Angel during that entire scene wasn't at all about Dru, but about two
men."
Me: "Disagree. What "Destiny" showed us is that the feelings were initially one sided, and started with Angelus. There is genuine envy and anger in his eyes in that coach with the bride when William looks wistfully out the window, talking about leaving the carnage to go find Dru. It's why Angelus finds her first to have sex with her, so that William could walk in on it. William didn't understand at that time where that was coming from. In fact, I don't think Spike fully understood either until much, much later. By 1894 at the very least, we learn that they're more comfortable with sharing "their girls," and even then, it wasn't concurrently. However I do suspect that after that initial Immortal business is when their "one time" occurred."
Miriam: "And, so long as Angel is a man (and I think he is) and Spike clearly
feels very, very passionate about him (anger, betrayal, and clearly
something that led to their being in bed together), I'd say it's an
accurate statement to say that Spike feels passion for men and women."
Me: "Nah--Angel is still singular, not plural ;)"
Anyways, all that lead to a poll.
Poll Spike and Angel
Miriam: "What makes you think Spike's "100% straight"? Just doing the math, if
you're a man who's been intimate with another man, you're something
less than 100% anything *g*."
Me: "But Spike is.
Spike is very much into women, and *not* men. But that isn't to say he isn't comfortable in his sexuality that he could be intimate with one--count 'em one--guy. Sexuality isn't this cut and dry thing, though I don't think I'm fully capable of explaining that eloquently...
I have a guy friend, who is completely straight, but is comfortable enough with himself and his sexuality to say that he would "go gay" for James (Marsters). He's not into men in the least, but if asked that question, he could give a straight answer. I think that many (straight people) can, actually.
There's also the fact that reducing Spike's feelings for Angel to something as simple as sexual attraction, I think, is limited of their relationship. This isn't just libido, but genuine feelings for someone, and that surpasses sex. There's genuine hurt in "School Hard" for instance, when Spike punches Angel in the face in that hallway, realizing that yes, that still wasn't Angelus. To me, it showed he'd been missed.
And while a case can be made for Angel(us) being bi (not a strong case, but a case), I don't believe the same is true for Spike. There is nothing in the series beyond his feelings for Angel to ever suggest that he was interested in men in general."
Miriam: "If you assume Angel's comment about deviancy is not meant to suggest to
William that he desires him sexually, then you'd have to read that
backward and assume that Angel wasn't, at the time, sleeping with Dru
and with Darla and was only referencing the fact that he went hunting
and killing with them, and yet I think that there's evidence that he
was doing more than that with them both. And there's no reason at all
to think that Angel was straight."
Me: "Again, that's Angel we're talking about, and I didn't disagree with you. William, however, was not aware of Angelus' sexual relationship with Dru, nor are we even sure he fully knew who Darla was at that point."
Miriam: "As for William only having eyes for Dru, the way that he was looking at
Angel during that entire scene wasn't at all about Dru, but about two
men."
Me: "Disagree. What "Destiny" showed us is that the feelings were initially one sided, and started with Angelus. There is genuine envy and anger in his eyes in that coach with the bride when William looks wistfully out the window, talking about leaving the carnage to go find Dru. It's why Angelus finds her first to have sex with her, so that William could walk in on it. William didn't understand at that time where that was coming from. In fact, I don't think Spike fully understood either until much, much later. By 1894 at the very least, we learn that they're more comfortable with sharing "their girls," and even then, it wasn't concurrently. However I do suspect that after that initial Immortal business is when their "one time" occurred."
Miriam: "And, so long as Angel is a man (and I think he is) and Spike clearly
feels very, very passionate about him (anger, betrayal, and clearly
something that led to their being in bed together), I'd say it's an
accurate statement to say that Spike feels passion for men and women."
Me: "Nah--Angel is still singular, not plural ;)"
Anyways, all that lead to a poll.
Poll Spike and Angel