i called your bluff, watching you is not enough

[ms_legerdemain]

♠ Well, yes, I said I would write fic over Christmas. Apparently this was, in fact, a lie. I don't know if anyone actually cares...I admit I have been procrastinating something dreadful, and I've also been trying to kick my habit of reading fanfiction instead of actual fiction, because I like to try to read some novels with a degree of literary

Comments

[ragingfirefall]

I think watching the movie without having read the stories is probably the best way to do it. Excitement over the movie has made me return to the canon and start rereading all my favourites, but now I'm wondering if it hasn't set me up for disappointment by re-establishing my previously-vague mental ideas of the characters and setting. I'll try to treat it like any adaptation, I guess: enjoy it as a film in itself, rather than as an interpretation of a favourite book/s.

That said, if you think the upcoming Dorian Gray is going to be painful for Wilde fans, I'll be sure not to read the novel before I see it. Alas, no, I haven't read it; my not-so-secret shame.

Hehe, I was going to say that I agree that RDJ makes an attractive Holmes, and surprisingly so, since Holmes is never really described as attractive - then I remembered that we technically see Holmes through the eyes of Watson who is totally suppressing more-than-friendly urges, if you ask me, which might account for that. :p

You have the first Tamir book! *keyboard smash of glee* Nagging does yield results: a valuable life lesson.

Yep, it's The Bone Doll's Twin, which is actually the one I usually advise people to start with. I've been plugging Nightrunner (her other series) to you because of the utterly squee-worthy (imo, at least) slash pairing at its core, but The Tamir Triad is actually the series that introduced me to LF's work and got me hooked in her writing, so I think it's an awesome place to start.

Hmm, relatively easy-going but not too quick a read? *cracks knuckles*
Well, Bone Doll's Twin is a decent length, although I find people usually tend to race through it once they get into it, so that might not be your best option unless you have the sequels on hand. This might be a good chance to give Sherlock Holmes a go? It's mostly short stories, so even if the language proves a bit dense to hold your attention for long, you can read it in short bursts. If any other ideas come to me, I'll let you know, but this comment is already far too long...

...Ho hum. I must confess, I'm normally not that interested in fantastical appropriations of historical figures, or in Marlowe, but that sounds kind of awesome. Slightly trashy awesome, but intriguing nonetheless. *adds it to the reading list*

[ms_legerdemain]

Well, I loved it! It was awesome. Then again, the people who say it feels a bit like fanfiction are not necessarily wrong. It does, but it feels like good fanfiction, in my opinion. I had very few preconceptions, so it all worked well for me, and the costumes are divine. I would advise trying very hard to distance yourself from the books though.

On the subject of those more than friendly urges, the slash actually writes itself in that movie. butterflygirl_3 and I have a list of our favourite slashy scenes. Let me tell you, they were abundant. It was sufficiently glaringly obvious that I couldn't help but wonder whether the non-slash fangirls were nevertheless wondering why Holmes and Watson just seemed that...cozy. Ot if not cozy, then why Holmes was acting like a jealous lover over the whole Mary thing. Still, as I was shipping them like burning anyway, I was most leased by all the subtext. :p

When you see it, the belt scene is worth noting. Yes, the belt scene. I didn't realise it was a belt scene until someone explained it to me, because I my fangirl brain had stopped regitsering details and proceeded straight to SQUEEEEEE, do not pass sanity, do not collect a dash of normalcy.

It is going to be more than pain. I don't know if I'll be able to go ans see it. I'm usually fairly tolerant of movie adaptations, because I know you can't fit in all the detail etc etc, but for a book that is so incredibly focused on aesthetics, they've done a catastrophically bad job. For one thing, Dorian is supposed to be blonde (which actually is important, because the whole point is the contrast between his angelic beauty and his corruption). Also, Lord Henry is supposed to be a smoking hot, cynical, amoral, charismatic, enchanting, brilliant, seductive, debauched gentleman, and much as I have nothing against Colin Firth, he is just not right for that role. And if Lord Henry is not right, the movie is dead to me.

/rambling

LOL, I got a keysmash. Excellent. I might even start reading it today - I am ficcing at the moment, but I have a couple of hours before I have to go to work.

Hmmm, Sherlock Holmes is a good idea. I ight just try that. Alternately I have this teetering pile of books on my desk including Middlesex, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo and The Campaigns of Alexander...I'm sure I'll find something. :p But yes, if something springs to mind, do let me know.

Tehe, yeah, I'm normally a bit dubious about them as well. I suppose my liking this book just proves will sell out for boylove. :p

Mah lord, long comment is long.

[ragingfirefall]

I suspect I am going to beat your "long comment is long" with my "epic comment is epic". Prepare yourself. :p

I think a lot of the people who are complaining about the Sherlock Holmes movie are canon purists - which is fine, and something I certainly respect, but still something I'll try to avoid myself. From what I've seen of it, I think I'll really enjoy if I just, as you suggest, distance myself from the books and treat it as a film rather than an adaptation. If nothing else, it appears I have slashy subtext and gorgeous Victoriana to look forward to. That should be enough. *maniacal grin*

Ah, the great Holmes/Watson debate. This puts me in mind of the "literary slash" we were discussing - Hamlet/Laertes vs Hamlet/Horatio, and so on. Tbh, I'm not sure of my exact stance when it comes to Holmes/Watson. As far as canon goes, I highly doubt Conan Doyle intended them to be read as a couple, and I certainly don't think anything actually goes on between them. That said, there is definite material for slash fans to read subtext from if they so choose. It falls into that debate of whether to perceive openly affectionate male relationships of different historical periods with a modern eye (and so see them as homoerotic) or to consider them in context (and so argue that "things were different back then", and men could have strong bonds of purely platonic friendship). I respect the opinions of anyone who thinks Holmes and Watson are simply very good friends in a time where male friendship was treated differently, and certainly their friendship is lovely to read about; but I do often wonder, when I'm reading it, exactly how Holmes feels about Watson. If anybody is suppressing urges, actually, I think it's Holmes; Watson seems too oblivious to such things and too fond of his wife for me to really think he's suffering from any unrequited urges.

...Oh, crap, sorry, I went into Lit student mode for a while there. Any excuse to wax lyrical on fiction, and I go on analytical rants. Ignore me!

All that said, I'm still looking forward to seeing all this coziness for myself. However much it's actually there and however much it's wishful thinking, I still appreciate any adaptation that draws attention to it. By the sounds of it, this belt scene (BELT SCENE? WHAT? BELTS HOLD UP PANTS, RIGHT? :p) is going to make my new year.

By describing Lord Henry as an amoral, seductive Victorian gentleman, you're trying to make me read the book, aren't you? I see through your ploys! Which admittedly are quite effective. Dammit.

I hope I haven't talked up Lynn Flewelling too much. I'm sure you'll love her work, but I do worry that even the best books can disappoint after ceaseless hype. Then again, you know better than to pay too much attention to me, right? :p

Epic comment is epic. I knew it.

[ms_legerdemain]

You're welcome to go into Lit student mode, it's interesting. From a more academic/literary standpoint, I'd completely agree that they probably weren't intended to be read as a couple - I doubt Conan Doyle was a closet slash fanboy. :p Now I clearly need to actually go and read canon in order to formulate an opinion. I'd respect those people who'd say here is no erotic element, but on the other hand, when you read something like The Picture of Dorian Gray (my sole example :p), I think it does tend to suggest that while there were definitely very affectionate male relationships that were non-sexual, there were also very affectionate male relationships with a sexual element.

...I am expressing myself remarkably badly. Gracious. And to think I usually do well on things that involve writing...

Tehe, poor Holmes, being forced to repress those urges. :p Classics is inherently destructive to my attempts to allow men to have purely platonic friendships - everyone had wives and boyfriends. :p

It does raise some interesting questions about the changing perceptions of male friendship. Hmm. Damn, now I am intrigued.

So the sensible, serious student is very willing to appreciate the potential for it to be a purely platonic friendship which beautifully represents relationships between men in a different historical context. The fangirl, however, wants to rewatch all of the parts where they flirt. :p

YES! BELTS DO INDEED HOLD UP PANTS! XD Though no pants are removed. Oh wait...I lie...

Mwahaha, you see through my ploys, but they are still effective. Mission accomplished. It's short too, so it wouldn't take that long to read. There is also actual, honest-to-god canon slash. I mean, it's never explicityl stated, but it is very, very, VERY heavily implied.

Tehe, too bad, I pay a lot of attention to your opinions. :p So now I'd better not be disappointed...