Things I don't grok (on cross-gender friendships)
Girl Talk: Should I Be Jealous Of His Female Friends? -- it was the comments I found especially noteworthy, really. Although plenty of commenters express that they're ok with their partners having friends of a different gender, a large number seem to consider it so normal not to accept this that it's almost taken-for-granted (especially the comment about "any wife who says otherwise is lying" -- oooh, I hate that 'denying other's viewpoints' crap, but that's a whole other rant, and one that involved a recent Wanda Sykes Show, too).
This is a concept I encounter in mainstream society remarkably frequently, and have been encountering since I was old enough to begin learning about relationship dynamics. It shows up in casual conversation, in platitudes and truisms, in jokes, in sitcoms, in romantic comedies, in dramas -- it's remarkably pervasive, and it grates on me. It always left me confused, baffled, sometimes hurt, and it's an arena in which I tend to tread very carefully because I know I don't "get it", and I know the reactions are often way more intense when it's a friend who has been a lover in the past (which is not infrequently the case for me). And whether I "get it" or not, I still respect the boundaries other people have set in their own relationships, once I understand what those are (although the loss of friendship that can result from that is the source of hurt I mention above). The idea of being thought to be "poaching" someone else's partner is pretty horrific to me. But none of that actually makes it "make sense" to me. (semi-incidentally, this is part of why romantic comedies and a lot of sitcoms don't work for me; the problems posed and the solutions explored don't connect for me most of the time).
First of all, I've always had friends of varying genders. There have been swings over the years in terms of percentages, but my life feels really out-of-kilter when I occasionally find I'm only in close contact with friends of one gender, and I tend to quickly try to remedy that. So I find these kinds of attitudes threatening, in a general way, probably much like some of these women would find my perspective threatening, in a general way.
Secondly, I'm bi. By the most conservative version of this standard (no friends with whom there is orientation-compatibility that could lead to hypothetical hanky-panky), I'm allowed either no partnered friends at all, or perhaps only straight female and gay male friends. Even the "no friendships with ex-lovers" rule would eliminate between four and six of my absolute nearest and dearest, and at least a dozen more casual but valued connections. Gotta say, that'd suck for me, and I'm glad most of my social circle doesn't seem to follow these rules. Thankfully, my general experience in queer circles is that we're too used to tripping all over each other at events and such to be able to implement this sort of thing. Same thing with my college circles; too small a community for most of those kinds of boundaries to exist, especially since my particular college group was co-ed and remarkably prone to in-group dating (this also relates to the whole "don't date your friends' exes" rule that only makes sense to me under certain circumstances, not as it is often broadly advocated). And in poly circles, well, it's sort of a different ball game, although there are commonalities as well.
Thirdly, I expect both myself and my friends to have ethics. I do resent the implication that I could be a threat, because I take it as a personal attack on my ethics, and I take my ethics very seriously indeed. And I just don't understand being partnered with someone you believe would lie to you, cheat on you, etc. I've certainly seen it plenty, but yeah, not grokking. Also, I know I'm partially reacting to nasty media representations of single women; I feel we're often portrayed as predatory, untrustworthy, dangerous, desperate. It's some seriously unappealing and negative crap, and I don't like feeling that imagery aimed in my direction.
Fourthly, I'm poly and have been for 15 years, so very much socialized within a network of poly folk who share a lot of language and framing for discussing and negotiating attractions and interests and emotional hot-buttons and jealousies. I'm very used to the concept that just because there's an attraction, or a jealousy, it doesn't make the situation the end of the world. It makes it time for talking and negotiating and sorting out. And once conclusions and agreements are reached, it's back to ethics, and living by your agreements or having the guts to try to renegotiate them. And that includes sucking up and coping with not always being able to act on one's urges. That's part of being a grown-up. And back to media representations again -- all that lying in romantic comedies? What the fuck is up with that? Why is that funny or cute or understandable? I know, I know -- no plot if people just sit down and hash shit out. But still... Ew. I often end up really disliking just about everyone by the end of some of the worse examples out there. And don't even get me started on the gender essentialism in most of them... *eyeroll*
OK, this is threatening to turn into at least three other rants, so I'm stopping here.
This is a concept I encounter in mainstream society remarkably frequently, and have been encountering since I was old enough to begin learning about relationship dynamics. It shows up in casual conversation, in platitudes and truisms, in jokes, in sitcoms, in romantic comedies, in dramas -- it's remarkably pervasive, and it grates on me. It always left me confused, baffled, sometimes hurt, and it's an arena in which I tend to tread very carefully because I know I don't "get it", and I know the reactions are often way more intense when it's a friend who has been a lover in the past (which is not infrequently the case for me). And whether I "get it" or not, I still respect the boundaries other people have set in their own relationships, once I understand what those are (although the loss of friendship that can result from that is the source of hurt I mention above). The idea of being thought to be "poaching" someone else's partner is pretty horrific to me. But none of that actually makes it "make sense" to me. (semi-incidentally, this is part of why romantic comedies and a lot of sitcoms don't work for me; the problems posed and the solutions explored don't connect for me most of the time).
First of all, I've always had friends of varying genders. There have been swings over the years in terms of percentages, but my life feels really out-of-kilter when I occasionally find I'm only in close contact with friends of one gender, and I tend to quickly try to remedy that. So I find these kinds of attitudes threatening, in a general way, probably much like some of these women would find my perspective threatening, in a general way.
Secondly, I'm bi. By the most conservative version of this standard (no friends with whom there is orientation-compatibility that could lead to hypothetical hanky-panky), I'm allowed either no partnered friends at all, or perhaps only straight female and gay male friends. Even the "no friendships with ex-lovers" rule would eliminate between four and six of my absolute nearest and dearest, and at least a dozen more casual but valued connections. Gotta say, that'd suck for me, and I'm glad most of my social circle doesn't seem to follow these rules. Thankfully, my general experience in queer circles is that we're too used to tripping all over each other at events and such to be able to implement this sort of thing. Same thing with my college circles; too small a community for most of those kinds of boundaries to exist, especially since my particular college group was co-ed and remarkably prone to in-group dating (this also relates to the whole "don't date your friends' exes" rule that only makes sense to me under certain circumstances, not as it is often broadly advocated). And in poly circles, well, it's sort of a different ball game, although there are commonalities as well.
Thirdly, I expect both myself and my friends to have ethics. I do resent the implication that I could be a threat, because I take it as a personal attack on my ethics, and I take my ethics very seriously indeed. And I just don't understand being partnered with someone you believe would lie to you, cheat on you, etc. I've certainly seen it plenty, but yeah, not grokking. Also, I know I'm partially reacting to nasty media representations of single women; I feel we're often portrayed as predatory, untrustworthy, dangerous, desperate. It's some seriously unappealing and negative crap, and I don't like feeling that imagery aimed in my direction.
Fourthly, I'm poly and have been for 15 years, so very much socialized within a network of poly folk who share a lot of language and framing for discussing and negotiating attractions and interests and emotional hot-buttons and jealousies. I'm very used to the concept that just because there's an attraction, or a jealousy, it doesn't make the situation the end of the world. It makes it time for talking and negotiating and sorting out. And once conclusions and agreements are reached, it's back to ethics, and living by your agreements or having the guts to try to renegotiate them. And that includes sucking up and coping with not always being able to act on one's urges. That's part of being a grown-up. And back to media representations again -- all that lying in romantic comedies? What the fuck is up with that? Why is that funny or cute or understandable? I know, I know -- no plot if people just sit down and hash shit out. But still... Ew. I often end up really disliking just about everyone by the end of some of the worse examples out there. And don't even get me started on the gender essentialism in most of them... *eyeroll*
OK, this is threatening to turn into at least three other rants, so I'm stopping here.