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heron61 July 29 2009, 08:09:10 UTC
Open Thread: When Art and Ideals Collide

I don't have much trouble with this, largely because I've found serious (modern) misogynists and homophobes (like Card) tend to be sufficiently annoying in their storytelling that I'm rarely interested in the stories they tell. I'll put up with mild problems, and I'll easily put up with anything that isn't exceedingly egregious from work that's from before 1970, but anything after 1980 that's into the sort of serious misogyny or homophobia territory (from my PoV, one or both of these describes all of Card's work) is something that I have no interest in. I've regularly put down a book out of annoyance or boredom and then later found that the author was a raving nutball libertarian conservative or similar variety scum (John C. Wright & Peter Hamilton are both excellent examples of this phenomena). One of the useful things about reading almost exclusively SF is that most SF authors wear their ideologies on their sleeve and so reading books by modern or near-modern authors whose politics and social belief that I later find out are horrid essentially never happens.

Gay and straight: parallel poly worlds

Aaron has talked about this at length. He's largely a part of gay male culture now and straight/bi poly culture strikes him as very weird. It's definitely a case of there being a major gay & lesbian culture vs. bi & straight culture divide. I find it sort of sad that bi people always (IMHO at least) seem to be part of straight poly culture rather than gay or lesbian poly culture.

Yes. This. Dawkins, get off of my team!

Yes! I have much sympathy and respect for atheists. I have little respect for Dawkins as a scientist and none for him as a loud-mouthed ideologue.

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moominmuppet July 29 2009, 11:20:55 UTC
I most often find the art issue a problem in movies and older books. I have a lot of trouble enjoying old movies because I can't stop noticing the gender and race politics to the exclusion of actually just enjoying the plot, for example.

I see a lot of overlap between the lesbian/bi/straight poly worlds, with gay open relationships generally being conceptualized very differently. And I don't think that's just because of my own relationship dynamics (my most long-standing poly relationship being with K and T, who are living within a pretty poly and poly-friendly lesbian subculture). I also see it in who posts to the LJ poly communities. I can recall a lot of posts by poly lesbians, but almost none by poly-identified gay men.

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heron61 July 30 2009, 05:27:21 UTC
most often find the art issue a problem in movies and older books. I have a lot of trouble enjoying old movies because I can't stop noticing the gender and race politics to the exclusion of actually just enjoying the plot, for example.

I tend to excuse work from the early 1960s and earlier unless it is impressively horrid, because I largely assume that the US and Western Europe were deeply scary and exceptionally bigoted places prior to the social changes of the 1960s.

I see a lot of overlap between the lesbian/bi/straight poly worlds, with gay open relationships generally being conceptualized very differently. And I don't think that's just because of my own relationship dynamics (my most long-standing poly relationship being with K and T, who are living within a pretty poly and poly-friendly lesbian subculture). I also see it in who posts to the LJ poly communities. I can recall a lot of posts by poly lesbians, but almost none by poly-identified gay men.

That makes sense to me - at least in the poly communities that I hang out in (the Portland and DC area otherkin communities, where poly is essentially the norm, and at least 40% of people are bi), there are slightly more women than men and there's a mild undercurrent that even men in the community are sexually threatening unless proven otherwise, so it makes sense that such a place would be more welcoming of lesbians than gay men. However, it's equally true that I know only two lesbians in these communities, neither of them have any major connections to their local lesbian community. Of course, I also know no gay men in either community, so there's clearly some bias.

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