And some more...

[moominmuppet]

Finishing up clearing out email now that I'm home:

Canon and Sheep Shit: Why We Fight.
I hate the Doctor Who canon like Dawkins hates God.

Like him, I'm convinced the target of my animus doesn't exist, but that doesn't stop me spending half my life writing about how dreadful it is. (from marnanel)

Road Kill: It's Fresh, It's Organic, It's Free --

Comments

[minniethemoocha]

I saw an episode of DYAO by accident last week and loved it. I thought Marissa was hot and cute, I thought the contestants were hot and cute, and I thought the costumes were not ill fitting or trashy (they're DANCE costumes -- dance costumes are sometimes a little gaudy). Also the partners seemed not skinny and I enjoyed watching people who hadn't been able to do, say, deep squats, pole pullups or dips before get confident and strong enough to do so with attitude. I didn't find the judges mean or patronizing especially by reality TV standards. Marketing a show that seems less about weight loss than about becoming mobile and confident in one's sex appeal doesn't seem evil to me. A drop of 2 to 4 pounds in a week, which is what many of them seem to accomplish on these "drastic" diet and exercise regimes, is not beyond the pale -- I've done it myself without becoming unhealthy when I wanted to lose weight. And losing weight a little at a time while the main goal seems to be improving strength, muscle control, endurance, and grace really doesn't seem bad to me. I didn't see it as an opportunity for fat-haters to gawk. Unlike "Biggest Loser" I didn't see their fat depicted as grotesque. Just because they want to lose weight doesn't mean they aren't learning to move and feel sexy as fat people in a way they probably didn't know they could before. I weigh 200 pounds now, have weighed a lot more and a lot less at times, and I have loved and had great sex with women and men of various sizes, and I dug getting to see people who'd felt bad about their weight learn to work it and show off in a way that feels good. Am I missing something?

[moominmuppet]

We may simply be coming from different perspectives. I'm unlikely to give "benefit of the doubt" to any competitive weight-loss show (and when it's part of the scoring, and especially when they're intentionally dramatizing that element by creating a house full of "evil temptations", I can't see it as anything else). I think they're fundamentally fucked up, and capitalize on fatphobia in all sorts of ways.

[minniethemoocha]

Eh, like I said, I just watched a couple of epis, so I didn't get a chance to see the parts about the "bad food" or shaming tactics. I just liked that the coaching was towards physical grace in people who had no dance background, and that contestants were encouraged to feel sexy and good in the bodies that they had at the moment, even if they did strongly wish to lose weight. That and I think a couple of the people on the show are total eye candy, so perhaps I just saw what I wanted to see. I realize also that my comment might have sounded really assy, given how much you dislike the show, so although I had a different experience, I want to be clear that I am NOT trying to erase or invalidate yours. :-*

[moominmuppet]

No worries!

I think it's frustrating me particularly, because I'd dearly love to see a dance show like this if it weren't weight-loss focused.

[cassidyrose]

I thought the costumes were not ill fitting or trashy (they're DANCE costumes -- dance costumes are sometimes a little gaudy).

I am the author of the linked post. Some of the costumes on the show don't fit the contestants properly (waists cut at odd places, not enough fabric to prevent butt ride-up of the skirts when dancing, etc.) and the gaudiness did veer into trashiness for me and I am a semi-professional fat dancer who has also been a burlesque dancer so that is saying a lot. They could have costumed the contestants much better and still been flashy and sexy and fun. We do it all the time with the Fly Girls. And I still contend that the over-reliance on shiny spandex was a move to display the fat in a non-positive way.

I enjoyed watching people who hadn't been able to do, say, deep squats, pole pullups or dips before get confident and strong enough to do so with attitude.

That is the insidious lure of shows like these. It is compelling to watch fat people be active because we don't often see that on TV, but we need to remember they are on a weight loss show (hell, it is in the show's name) and are doing these exercises primarily to lose weight for the competition. If it were just about gaining mobility and strength and learning to dance as fat people they could have had a show just about that. Hell, they could have filmed my dance company for that matter. But that is not nearly as marketable as a weight-loss show, nor does it feed the diet industry. The fact that the show, for whatever reason, had to be tied to weight-loss is the fundamental flaw. And I do think there is a HUGE humiltainment factor in having people get checked out by the show's doctor in their skivvies and getting weighed on stage on a massive scale.

You are right that the judges aren't mean by reality show standards, but they also fail to give much serious dance criticism. There seems to be too much "WOW, I can't believe you can actually do that being so fat" implicit in some of the comments, and as a fat dancer I have heard comments like that far too often and I find it condescedning and patronizing.

It should also be noted that the contestants are eating very calorie-restrictive diets a la Biggest Loser. One woman is eating fewer than 1,000 calories a day. They are trying to lose as much weight as possible as quickly as possible because that is key to them winning the show. These are not people in it trying to get active who may experience weight-loss as a side effect. These people are trying really hard to lose weight and to lose it fast. They are not being judged on their dance ability alone, but on one how much weight they lose as well.

The first episode had a whole bunch of fat-shaming stuff around food. Apparently all fat people know how to eat is hostess products and fried chicken. There is a big 'ol "Cheat" cabinet in the house the contestants live in which is stockpiled with "junk food" and there have been multiple dramas shown around that, including showing someone "cheating" by eating the food (because, really, what makes better TV than a fat person eating potato chips?). That sort of moralistic and sensationalist crap about food is fundamentally problematic and illustrates that the show is largely about the drama of fat people losing weight and "battling" their "food demons."

I dug getting to see people who'd felt bad about their weight learn to work it and show off in a way that feels good. Am I missing something?

What I think you may be missing is that despite being shown how to "work what they've got", this message is being purported in the service of weight-loss and is viewed as acceptable because the contestants are working to become thinner. I do not think a show like this would air where people learned to show off their sexy fat, embrace it, and not do a damn thing to get rid of it. At the heart of it, DYAO is a weight-loss show with dance as a gimmick. It is why I cannot endorse it in any way, shape or form.

[minniethemoocha]

As perhaps I mentioned, I didn't watch the show closely enough to see all the faults you did. I watched only 2 episodes while I was nursing a head cold. Obviously I was about the eye candy and not so much about the fat politics. Also I'm by no means an experienced dancer. Just an ordinary fat chick here. In any case, I'm not out on the ramparts with a halberd about it, I just didn't find what I watched utterly evil. Clearly your mileage varied and you have strong feelings about it.

[cassidyrose]

I understand, and I just wanted to respond explaining what I found particularly unseemly about it. I meant no disrespect to you. I am in a place where I think all weight-loss shows are inherently exploitative and fat-phobic but as always all our mileage varies on how see such things.