Lost in the timeline... please help?

[ipperne]

I'm so confused by Kyo, so now i'm asking for help!

Kyo have a katana, Tenro, who is made by Muramasa.

In the flashback in vol. 18 where the true story of Myumis death i revealed, she, Myumi, gives Kyo Tenro before she is killed by Chinmei.

At this time Kyo is in control of Kyoshiros body, right? (and if this is the case, then where is Kyoshiros

Comments

[chomiji]

I'm pretty sure that Mayumi's death comes before Kyoshiro takes Kyo's spirit into his body after preserving Kyo's real body in that block of magical ice (Kyo doesn't gain control of the situation until the "current" events we see in the first few volumes of the series).

Note that Kyo may have been in possession of Tenrou (which is actually, I think, a type of sword called a nodachi - bigger than a katana) before then, but perhaps, trusting to Muramasa's mastery of the area around the house, he left Tenrou on the sword rack in the house when he went to sit outside ... is he carrying any weapon when Mayumi comes up with her umbrella and tries to get him to come in out of the rain? (Don't have access to my books at the moment.)

In any case, even if his earlier weapon isn't Tenrou (remember that Muramasa made other similar swords, including Sasuke's "false" Tenrou, which he had before Muramasa gave him Shibien), it makes sense that he would be using a nodachi. One of the online resources I found noted that a man who was big and strong

[ipperne]

but but but... Kyo has short hair in all the flashbacks with Mayumi? that's what makes me think that he is in control of Kyoshiros body, since I don't believe that Kyo would be able to cut his hair and grow it back to 'normal' length within a single year, or less?
but it makes sense for Muramasa to teach his student with that type of sword... so, I'm a little wiser now.

Thanks! ^_^

[chomiji]

Yeah, you're right about the hair, and that's really, really weird. Maybe that's where Kamijyo-san lost track of stuff ... 'cause remember, at the beginning of the series, Kyoshiro is running things with the body, although he realizes that Kyo might take over ... and that does imply he's lost control before. Well, I'll just have to go home tonight and look through my books, but I know you're right about the short hair, and I think it's going to be just one of those little mysteries.

- Cho

[ipperne]

It could be that he lost control in the beginning. after all, having two souls in one body is against the laws of nature. And Kyo is not a person you can keep down and get away with it.
And I think that, if Kyoshiro lost control, Kyo would go see Muramasa in hope that he might know a way to find his body and get him back inside it...
Or maybe Kamijyo just lost it...

[chomiji]

I think you're 100% right that he would go see Muramasa about something like that. And when they go see Muramasa in the current timeline so that Kyo can learn the advanced techniques, Muramasa isn't surprised to see him in Kyoshiro's body. I thought that was just satori at work, but if Kyo was already trapped that time he was at Muramasa's 4 years ago, that's an even easier explanation. And you know who else wasn't surprised to see him in Kyoshiro's body, even 4 years ago? That rat Chinmei - and he realized it was Kyo, not Kyoshiro. So - yeah, I think that's how the timeline went, you've got it, and I was the one who was confused!

I did check vol. 18, where the flashback to Mayumi's death occurs. Kyo really is unarmed as he sits outside in the rain, waiting for Muramasa (and Mahiro) to get back. He beats all those Mibu soldiers to a pulp with his bare hands - we see him holding the last one up by a grip on the guy's throat, one-handed. Pretty good considering that this may have been one of the first times he's had to fight

[ipperne]

Yeah it makes sense for Kyo to ask Muramasa for help, because Kyoshiro was his student too once. and you're right, Chinmei is one of the few who recognizes Kyo right away, if you don't count in all the 'high' mibu who knows the story of Kyos missing body

[chomiji]

>> it's funny to be confused ;-) <<

LOL! Well, that's not quite what I was saying - I meant it's fun to have people to talk through this kind of stuff with!

I'm sure Kyo holds whatever sword he has when he's asleep - probably part of his warrior training ... I can just see him as that tiny red-eyed urchin, cuddling his first bokken (wooden training sword) when he goes beddy-bye at night. Holding Yuya would probably be more fun but not as useful in the case of a sneak enemy attack (although she can be pretty dangerous, as long as her opponents aren't Mibu elite!).

Kyoshiro gave Shibien back to Muramasa after he'd been manipulated into killing a huge number of people with it, with one death in particular being the last straw ... this comes out in a long series of flashbacks near the end of the series (vol. 37, chapter 294, is where Muramasa gets Shibien back).

- Cho

[ipperne]

Kinda figured that you didn't mean that it's fun to be confused, but I just couldn't help it ;-)
but it is fun to talk things over with someone else, because people notice different details and when you put all these details together, you get the whole picture...
Or something... the thought really sounded cool so I hope the words makes sense...

that's the cutest picture of Kyo, cuddeling his bokken, and I'm almost positive that Muramasa could be the type of 'dad', and probably the only person in the world, who would sing Kyo a lullaby.

Aha! I didn't believe for one second that Shibien found its own way like a good dog. Really, please believe me?
So, now I can sit here and wait for number 37 to come out...
that would be in like 2 years or something... *sigh*

[chomiji]

Heh heh, I like the image of Shibien sneaking back home by itself. We actually had a situation like that in a fantasy roleplaying game I was in long, long ago. We had a wizard's staff that we couldn't take along with us at that time for some reason, but it was intelligent and could levitate and move itself, so we gave it directions to go back home to our mentor. Everyone was very fond of it, so we were all giving it good advice: "Travel by night!" "Hide in a ditch if you hear someone coming!" Ahh, those were the days ... !

(Awww, and now I have a picture in my mind of Muramasa singing chibi-Kyo to sleep ... .)

Yeah, it is such a killer waiting for the English volumes to come out. But you can always check out the scans, translations, and scanlations at hana-mi.net in the meantime.

- Cho

[ipperne]

It's a nice picture. Imagine how it would look left-right-left before crossing the street and not talk to strangers

[chomiji]

So what's the deal with Danish and the translation? Surely it's just the translators who aren't so good, and not the whole language? Because Sanada has been explaining to me how the translators do various things with English to get across some of the things in the Japanese - sometimes instead of translating directly, they have to pick some more-or-less equivalent idea, or an accent, or something, that gets a similar "feel" in English. I would think that could be done in any language, but that's where translation skill comes in.

Yeah, we had some great games - the gamesmaster on that one was the guy who runs this site. You know, I think we did warn the staff not to talk to strangers!

- Cho

[ipperne]

You're right, it could be that the translators aren't good enough, but then it shouldn't be published in Danish at all

[ipperne]

actually last week I found out what could be wrong with the danish translations.
The danish publisher who publish SDK, translates from the english version of the manga, and not directly from the japanese one, wich means that it goes under two translations and not only one.