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[di_glossia]

How do you explain reappropriation of offensive terms within a certain country to non-native speakers?

I have a Scandinavian friend with a strong interest in American hip hop culture and especially music. Some time ago, I realized that she was using and misspelling a reappropriation of the N word in informal contexts. While our conversations are

Comments

[muckefuck]

But is it off limits? American values are not universal. The history of race in this country is not like that of any other, so it the strictures and taboos we operate under are not necessarily applicable to places an ocean away.

Rather than being about you telling your friend what she can and cannot say, this should be a conversation about the different histories of your two countries and how this all plays out in the present day. Anything else is a kind of cultural imperialism.

[di_glossia]

That's my problem. She's a Norwegian of Norwegian descent with no family connection to the United States. IS she barred from using the word? I haven't said anything because I don't know. I just don't want her to end up saying that to a black American one day and suffering the consequences.

[intrikate88]

I agree with muckefuck, this is something you should have a genuine conversation about, not just telling your friend what to say. I agree with your concern that she'll use the word in a context one day that may have repercussions, and I think if you share the history of the word and WHY it has the current usages that it does- by some groups for oppression, by others for reclaiming and creating a new identity with the word, then at least she'll be conscious of what she's saying. She may still use it, and there may still be consequences of her using it, but at least she'll have the understanding to make the decision for herself if that's a term she wants to associate with.

[di_glossia]

I'll keep that in mind, thank you. I didn't realize how ethnocentric it would be for me to say that she couldn't use a word simply because I had always been taught that I couldn't use the word, its origin, its derivatives, or even similar-sounding words.

[di_glossia]

Do you know if the word has been reappropriated outside of American black communities?

I was thinking I would probably just end up telling her one day, but the real issue for me is explaining why she has to be affected by a word that her people didn't use oppressively, essentially why my country's history has to bar her from using the word even to the point of not repeating it in song lyrics. I can explain why Katy Perry shouldn't have used the word, but how do I explain why it affects her? It's a muddle for me.

How did your boyfriend's friend even learn that word?!

[lilacsigil]

Some Aboriginal Australians (especially young men) use the word, borrowed from US hiphop culture, others consider it a racist and degrading term.

[shorofsky]

Maybe try to explain to her that in America that word carries a heavy weight of implied historical knowledge and that people of color prefer being called African Americans or people of color? Maybe tell her that outside rap/hip hop records the word is pretty much confined to very specific groups and situations and that the best course of action is to simply avoid using it when speaking English. I get that it might be difficult for her to translate "neger" in her head to "African American", but she should at least be told that that term carries less of a negative weight than her current preferred terminology.

[musa_nocturna]

Pointless. A Norwegian already knows these things. They don't care as much because Norway never had the same history with racism and slavery, so the word itself carries a lot less meaning there. But cultural bleed from America makes it impossible to not know American connotations.

I suspect that's possibly why it's used in the first place: as a protest against American cultural bleed. Their morals, not Norway's.

I'd recommend against bringing the topic up at all. Just as likely to have reverse effect, American telling Norwegian "don't do that because it's bad in America" will likely lead to Norwegian doing exactly what they're told not to do, just out of spite.

[di_glossia]

What about telling her about the bad reaction she can expect from using it around a black American? I'm not so much interested in forcing my culture on her as helping her avoid a very bad situation that could result from using it. It's certainly her choice, but I really do want to impress that it isn't only a white guilt issue.

Also, lol, I always thought she had a particularly blunt and vulgar way of speaking (my other Norwegian friends are a bit more mild-mannered) just because, not that it might be a cultural thing.

[mayanas]

Something else to take in to consideration is that there are Norwegian POC too and it would be ridiculous to assume that they don't know the connotations and historical context of n****r and the reclamation of n***a and could be hurt by her casual appropriation as well. It's not as if n*****r is only offensive to POC in America and that it's never used against POC elsewhere; racists in other countries, even speaking different languages, can and do use it as well (American culture is widespread, good and bad.) It's used here in Denmark and in Danish court of law you can be fined under the racism paragraph if you use it publicly and with derogatory intent and while I don't know how Norwegian law treats it, the sentiment (to prevent racism and persecution against minority groups) behind the law is probably not that much different up there.

This was just to give you even more context to take into consideration as well.

[bintblue]

I have had this come up in the context of teaching ESL in the U.S., which is different than dealing with it in a personal friendship (where, say, I could just get pissed off, or laugh and ask them if they think they are being funny, or frankly react as I please in the moment). But as a teacher i have made the choice to address it head on when it is used, and let my students know that it is not necessarily their word to say, and that it could be hurtful to others at best and get them punched in the face at worst. I am respectful, honest, open to discussing it as much as they want to, and obviously they can make their own choices (I teach adults). But in this situation I feel I would be doing them a disservice not to be clear and honest about the term. If appropriate I include my and my family members choices and feelings around the word.

I have not been in a situation where this has come up with students who are black or of African descent, but I am pretty sure i would address it in a similar way.

[di_glossia]

I have not been in a situation where this has come up with students who are black or of African descent, but I am pretty sure i would address it in a similar way.

I have. I knew a Nigerian-German in high school. He had just moved to the US at the beginning of the year but was fascinated by Ebonics, hip hop culture, and rap music, and was just plain delighted to be surrounded by other blacks, so he picked it up pretty quickly (the school was at least 50% black). Since he was black and African, I saw it as harmless and ignored it. Most of the black students were delighted that he used it, though there were some discussions of inappropriate words for the classroom.

[seifaiden]

I had that conversation this week in this very context (university ESL in the U.S.). Via the media, they have absorbed the meaning of this word as "way to address your friend" or just "my friend", as opposed to racial slur. I explained why this is not appropriate in the U.S. and the potential consequences of these actions, which include being perceived as racist even if that's not your intent. Interestingly, this group tends to be very confused/irritated by the pervasiveness of racism in the U.S. and it's not an uncommon topic of conversation in class.

I do have a student from the Ivory Coast in that class, though he doesn't use the term; all of the students in this context using it were Moroccans who ID as Arab or Berber. This is not the first time I've addressed this with this group, because I feel they need to know how they may be perceived. What they choose to do with this knowledge is up to them.

[di_glossia]

Well, the reappropriation has that meaning, as well as referring to a black male. It's the original term that's offensive. The problem is that the difference is identical to how the N word would be pronounced in a non-rhotic dialect, as well as being a difficult difference to notice when speaking quickly or not enunciating, so coming from the mouth of a white person, it's assumed to be the insult

[miss_morland]

Hmm. I think that part of learning a language is also learning about the (potential) offensiveness of words and understanding/knowing about their connotations -- that includes the concept of reappropriation. Assuming you and your friend are speaking English to one another, she's already playing on your part of the field, so to speak. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to say that in US English (that is to say, in the language in which you both are communicating), this word is considererd off-limits for white people and her using it makes you uncomfortable, even though it means nothing to her. (It's a bit like foreign swear words -- their impact is simply not the same at all.) Then it's up to her.

Of course, she could react in the way musa_nocturna says, or she could go "Aaah shit, I had no idea, sorry". You're the one who knows her, so you're really the only one who can reasonably have an idea as to what her reaction might be. But I don't think it's wrong to bring it up.

(Speaking as an ESL Norwegian, btw.)

[di_glossia]

We speak in both languages, but my Norwegian is nowhere near as good as her English. Tusen takk. It's good to hear from a Norwegian on this issue.

[resident_pink]

I'm from Sweden and I agree with miss_morland. I just don't see how there is any way a reasonably young Norwegian would -not- be aware of the history of this word or the potential risks using it. I think she just needs to be reminded/have it pointed out to her, that while saying this term may just make her sound "cool" and "hip hop-y" at home in Norway, it takes on a whole different level of offensiveness when in the US/around Americans. You don't have to forbid her to say the word, but just point out that as a person of her cultural heritage, and despite enjoying this particular music form and the culture around it, using that term in casual conversation she would at best alienate herself from the people she's trying to emulate - and at worst get in serious, serious trouble. It might just be that she's not connecting the dots, or that the word has become such a casual part of her vocabulary that she doesn't reflect on its lexical meaning any more, or even notices that she's using it.