kita0610 points us to righteous indignation over
incestuous faggot heathens. Expect the icon-makers to be recording the vast majority of that wank for posterity in various formats.
That particular wank does cramp my style a bit, though, because I've been gearing up to discuss incest!fics - or incest!rich fandoms - for a while now. (I decided that the Christmas break was JUST PERFECT for this discussion. Yes.) This will doubtless get me into hot water with many but, well, I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I just look for patterns. Everywhere. Help an obsessive-compulsive out? *bats lashes*
(Caveat: I'm specifically excluding cases where the incest is non-con.)
I have one main observation on the topic, and it is this: some fandoms seems much more inclined towards yielding specific types of incest!fic than others. (This covers fandoms where the incest is canon, as well as fandoms where it is not.)
I'd appreciate it if people would chip in with knowledge about fandoms I'm not familiar with, so that this list can be built up.
My preliminary thoughts lead me to the conclusion that m/m incest - both parental and sibling - is vastly more popular across fandoms (rather than within certain fandoms, if you see what I mean) which would indicate an appeal of the concept of m/m incest more than the characters selected in those items. In other words, the popularity of Regulus/Sirius might be down to the appeal of m/m incest as a concept, rather than any intrinsic appeal the individual characters might have (especially given that one of them only exists as a brief mention!).
This is curious, if true. An argument can be made that there are, in general more strong male than strong female characters in fandom as a whole, making m/m incest statistically more likely. It can be further argued, however, that the make-up of fandom in general needs to be taken into consideration. Fandom writers tend to be - to make an incredibly large generalisation - female. They are certainly more likely to support 'ships, including 'cest shipping.
It thus appears that female writers seem more comfortable writing m/m incest rather than m/f incest. Certainly, the m/f incest that does exist seems overwhelmingly skewed towards the sibling side, with a major focus on pseudocest - all of the excitement, with none of the taboo-breaking. What does this indicate about the place of incest within fandom as an entity?
1. Incest functions as a allegory within fandom, rather than depicting an actual relationship.
The power in an incestuous relationship tends to be overwhelmingly skewed towards the adult, which makes it difficult to portray father/daughter relationships as anything other than abuse. Similarly, the writer would have to overcome a deeply ingrained social taboo of allowing her (female) character to regard her son as anything other than a child, which many writers find difficult. As a personal example, I attempted to write Jean Grey/Cable once, and failed dismally, as I just couldn't wrap my head around it.
The power dynamic of brother/brother, however, is the epitome of equality. This can be seen most clearly in how twincest is regarded as 'natural' by certain parts of different fandoms: the two characters are visibly, as well as internally, equal. It is telling, however, that there is not an equal prevalence of sister/sister fic out there. Why do we not have Parvati and Padma? Why is there no Dawn & Buffy? [eta: see below for rebuttal.] I would argue that it is because the use of female characters in an incest fic would make the relationship uncomfortably close to what the writer herself understands. I'm of the school that believes it is difficult to write sex from a woman's perspective without revealing what you think and believe about sex, simply because we draw upon our own experiences as writers. Thus, writing f/f incest, despite the power balance of siblings, would be too close - uncomfortably so - for us as writers and as readers.
Writing m/m incest, then, adds an extra layer of security around the story: it turns it into an allegory of 'normal' relationships, by attempting to introduce characters who are signified as equals through the very fact of their brotherhood. Similarly, the power imbalance of a father/son relationship can be explored within the safety net of the allegory, without making the reader uncomfortable. I'm going to come right out and say that this is why it is nigh on impossible to write mother/daughter or father/daughter consensual incest fics: the writer would draw on their own parental relationships, and this would make it conceptually difficult for them to move the relationship within the fic in a way that makes narrative sense. Similarly, the reason for this difficulty is because the reader has an equal store of knowledge of dealing with her parents - and sometimes of being the parent - which makes it difficult to write such a convincing relationship.
2. The reason it does not depict an actual 'normal' incestuous relationship is because incestuous relationships are not normal.
It's as simple as that - but it does provide rather a large block for writers to attempt to write through. It is difficult to write a loving, consensual daughter/parent relationship because our understanding of being daughters and/or parents tells us that such a concept is a contradiction in terms. So - Jack cannot sleep with Sydney because he is Sydney's father, which therefore makes such a suggestion incomprehensible. More power to the writer who can overcome these deeply ingrained societal blocks to produce a fic that convinces me - they are better than any writer I have yet come across.
What of the brother/sister relationships, then? If the m/m incest is allegorical, what role does sibling incest play when the gender of one of the 'ship is the same as that of the reader? In a show like Veronica Mars, which is one of the few shows to have a fandom including f/m sibling incest (Lilly/Duncan), my understanding of the L/D dynamic is that the canon of the show portrays it as something not quite right. Frequently, the fic where D/L features utilises another character's POV, or a third person POV or, if that fails, Duncan's POV. I have not actually seen Lilly's POV used during any explicit D/L fic (please correct me if you know of some!). I would argue that this links in to how brother/sister relationships are portrayed in canon in certain shows e.g. ROME - as something not quite right, an aberration. Although the sex can be protrayed as consensual, the relationship is not portrayed as loving or long-lasting. Instead, we are guaranteed the downfall of 'the lustful one' - be that Lilly, Boone (in the case of pseudocest) or Iris & Justin - to restore the sanctity of the correct brother/sister relationship.
3. Pseudocest: all of the drama, none of the taboos
The idea behind pseudocest like Harry/Sirius and Boone/Shannon is to broach the same power issues that actual incest fic raises, without the preclusion of a happy ending. (All too often, however, when such things play out, the inevitable occurs.) It has the same level of disassociating of actual incest from the author's personal experience as, in this case, we are not moving the author's personal experience away from the topic of incest, but moving the topic of incest away from the author's actual experience. We are not-quite-discussing incest, if you see.
Conclusion:
So, what does this mean, then? Did the stars explode? Well... no. But this is my answer to those who argue that incest fic within fandom is an abomination and should be banned. In my opinion, incest fic serves a vital purpose, in allowing the discussion of power dynamics by the use of the short-hand of family relationships. Although one person might not understand what an author is trying to say when they argue that Fox Mulder loved Dana in a passionate, all consuming way (those things mean different things to different people, after all), if the author says that he loved her enough to give up Samantha for her, suddenly things become clear. We understand 'normal' sibling love, and can therefore use that relationship as a short-hand in our work to understand different power dynamics by making a familial relationship not quite normal.
In other words - lay off the 'cest!fic, it's all allegory, guv'nor.
***
///The types of incest, and examples of fandoms that feature them///
- [sibling] brother / brother (including the sub-set of twin!cest)
Canon:
Starcrossed (film - thanks to
thelana)
Son Frere (film - thanks to
thelana)
This is, in my unlearned and humble opinion, one of the most prolific forms in incest in fandom. Off the top of my head, we have:
- Supernatural - Wincest
- Harry Potter - twincest, and many permutations involving the Weasleys. Black!cest.
- LoTR - Boromir/Faramir
- Dexter - Dexter/Rudy (thanks to
lafemmedarla)
- Hercules - Ares/Hercules, Iphicles/Hercules (thanks to
ruric)
- X-Files - Krycek/Mulder (where Krychek is Mulder's brother - thanks to
ruric)
- Smallville - Lex/Lucas (thanks to
liviapenn)
- Heroes - Nathan/Peter Petrelli (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
- Troy - Hector/Paris (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- Fullmetal Alchemist - Edward/Alphonse Elric, Edward/Envy, Russell/Fletcher Tringham (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- X-Men - Cable/Stryfe (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- BSG - Zak/Lee Adama (thanks to
inlovewithnight)
- Numb3rs - Don/Charlie (thanks to
pro_f_iler)
- Simon & Simon - various (thanks to
pro_f_iler)
- Prison Break - Lincoln/Michael (thanks to
musesfool &
delfeus)
- 98 Degrees - Lachey brothers (thanks to
shirasade)
- Narnia - Peter/Edward (thanks to
shirasade)
- Boondock Saints - Connor/Murphy MacManus (thanks to
shirasade)
- Popslash RPS - Nick/Aaron Carter (thanks to
turloughishere)
- Naruto - Sasuke/Itachi (thanks to
anenko)
- Ouran High School Host Club - Hikaru/Kaoru (thanks to
anenko)
- Prince of Tennis - Fuji/Yuuta (thanks to
delfeus)
- Lies & Kisses (thanks to
delfeus)
- Oz - Ryan/Cyril (thanks to
mikou)
- Gravitation - Yuki/Tatsuha (thanks to
mikou)
- Digimon (thanks to
kyuuketsukirui)
- Baby-Sitters Club - various (thanks to
wisdomeagle)
- Arrested Development - Michael/GOB (thanks to
thelana)
- [sibling] sister / sister
- Harry Potter - Parvati / Padma, Fleur/Gabrielle Delacour (thanks to
kyrafic), Bellatrix/Narcissa (thanks to
selenak)
- Buffy - Buffy/Dawn (thanks to
kyrafic)
- RPF - Mary-Kate/Ashley Olsen (thanks to
kyrafic)
- Alias - Sydney/Nadia (rare - thanks to
soundingsea)
- Narnia - Susan/Lucy (thanks to
shirasade)
- Ginger Snaps - Brigitte/Ginger (thanks to
anenko)
- Charmed - various (thanks to
anenko)
- Baby-Sitters Club - various (thanks to
wisdomeagle)
- [sibling] brother / sister
This features in several fandom canons, yet isn't as popular as one might expect. The main exception would be Firefly, where River is acknowledged as not normal in her understanding of 'proper' relationships - witness her comment to Simon during a cut scene from Mrs Reynolds, asking when he'd marry her.
Canon:
- ROME
- Carnivale
- Silmarillion (thanks to
turloughishere)
- Storm Constantine's Burying the Shadow (thanks to
morgan32). Details
here.
- Angel Sanctuary (thanks to
delfeus). Details
here- Dynasty (thanks to
mikou)
- Six Feet Under (thanks to
likeadeuce)
- Revolutionary Girl Utena (thanks to
veleda_k)
- Saiyuki (thanks to
veleda_k)
- Vurt (thanks to
thelana)
- Oldboy (thanks to
thelana)
- Children of Dune (thanks to
candygirl_2005)
- Gladiator (thanks to
carmarthen)
- Nevar barr's novels (thanks to
carmarthen)
- Edgar & Allen (thanks to
destineyjen).
- Prison Break - T-Bag's parents (thanks to
thelana)
- various CSI, House and Law & Order episodes featuring non-recurring characters - link to
thelana's entry is
here.
Fandom:
- Harry Potter - Ginny/Ron
- Veronica Mars - Lilly/Duncan
- Firefly - River/Simon (thanks to
kita0610)
- RPF - Elijah/Hannah Wood (thanks to
kyrafic)
- Supernatural - Dean/sister (genderswitch fic - thanks to
femmenerd)
- Star Wars - Luke/Leia (thanks to
evilshelly)
- Pretender - Miss Parker/Lyle, Miss Parker/Jarod (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
- Roswell - Isabelle/Max, Isabelle/Michael (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
- Children of Dune - Leto ||/Ghanima (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
- The Hills have Eyes - Bobby/Brenda (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- X-Men - Quicksilver/Scartlett Witch (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- Avatar the Last Airbender - Zuko/Azula (thanks to
loves_bitch), Sokka/Katara (thanks to
anenko)
- Narnia - Susan/Peter and Lucy/Edward(thanks to
kyrafic and
shirasade)
- Sandman - (Death/Dream & various other Endless - thanks to
musesfool)
- LotR - Eowyn/Eomer (thanks to
musesfool)
- Weiß Kreuz - Ran/Aya (thanks to
delfeus)
- Digimon - Taichi/Hikari (thanks to
kyuuketsukirui)
- Revolutionary Girl Utena - various (thanks to
veleda_k)
- ASOUE - Violet/Kalus (thanks to
hiddenw)
- Drake & Josh - Drake/Megan (thanks to
destineyjen)
- Hannah Montana - Jackson/Miley Stewart (thanks to
destineyjen)
- Invader ZIM - DIB/GAZ (thanks to
destineyjen)
- [parental] mother / son
Nearly impossible to find. One canonical example is Sayuki (thanks to
daegaer). Details
here.
Canon:
- Nip/Tuck (Ava/Adrian Moore) (thanks to
darlas_mom)
- Buffy - Spike/Anne (attempted canonical incest - thanks to
selenak)
- The Winter Prince (thanks to
carmarthen)
- X-Men - Madelyne Pryor/Nate Grey (thanks to
darlas_mom).
- Back to the Future - Marty/his mother (thanks to
thelana)
- Harry Potter - Narcissa/Draco
- Fullmetal Alchemist - Trisha/Edward Elric (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- Angel - Darla/Connor (thanks to
darlas_mom)
- Smallville - Genevieve/Jason Teague(thanks to
crimsonsenya - [parental] mother / daughter
I have yet to find any.
- Buffy - Buffy/undead!Joyce, at the UCSL archive (thanks to
valarltd)
- Xena - Gabrielle/Hope (thanks to
anenko)
- [parental] father / son
The other major type.
- Veronica Mars - Echolls!cest
- Harry Potter - Weasley!cest, Malfoy!cest, Potter!cest (all very large in fandom)
- Supernatural - Win!cest (very large)
- Angel - Angel/Connor
- X-Files - Krychek/CSM (where the CSM is Krychek's father - thanks to
ruric)
- Smallville - the Luthors (thanks to
liviapenn)
- Hercules - Zeus/Ares (thanks to
ruric)
- Fullmetal Alchemist - Edward/Hoehnheim Elric (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- X-Men - Cable/Scott Summers (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- BSG - Bill/Lee Adama (thanks to
inlovewithnight)
- Star Wars - Luke/Vader (thanks to
valarltd)
- Indiana Jones - Indy/Henry (slash is not big in this fandom - thanks to
valarltd)
- Queer as Folk - Brian/Gus (thanks to
mikou)
- Kung Fu: The Legend Continues - Peter/Pop (thanks to
dorothy1901)
- Prison break - Lincoln/LJ (thanks to
thelana)
- Back to the Future - Marty/his dad (thanks to
thelana)
- [parental] father / daughter
Again, quite rare, despite the rich characterisation provided by many fandoms (e.g. Alias, Veronica Mars). Canon example offered by
morgan32 in Storm Constantine's Burying the Shadow. Details
here.
- Harry Potter - Arthur/Ginny
- Carnivale - Justin/Sofie (thanks to
bluerosefairy)
- Avatar the Last Airbender - Azula/Ozai (thanks to
loves_bitch)
- Angel - oh god, let's see if I have this right: Jasmine-possessing-Cordelia/Connor (thanks to
selenak) - canonical incest(?)
- Star Wars - Leia/Vader (usually unknowing - thanks to
valarltd)
- and just to prove me wrong *g* - Veronica Mars - Keith/Veronica (thanks to
wisdomeagle)
Canon:
- Oldboy (thanks to
thelana)
- [other] including aunt / uncle / nephews / nieces, grandparents, etc.
- X-Men - Cable/Jean (thanks to
likeadeuce)
- Prison Break - Michael/LJ (uncle/nephew) (thanks to
thelana)
- [pseudocest] e.g. step-siblings, father-figure/child
The 'fake' incest, where the frisson of excitement exists, but no actual incest is taking place.
Canon (& fandom):
LOST - Boone/Shannon
Fandom:
Highlander - Connor/Duncan (cousins? - thanks to
ruric and
dorothy1901)
Alias - Jack/Nadia, Sydney/Sloane, Irina/Sark. Sark/Sydney (thanks to
carmarthen).
Harry Potter - Harry/Sirius
Angel - Spike/Angel (thanks to
kita0610) - and all the rest of the Fanged Four permutations (thanks to
selenak), Dawn/Connor (thanks to
darlas_mom)
Dexter - Dexter/Deb (thanks to
lafemmedarla)
Veronica Mars - Veronica/Duncan (thanks to
soundingsea, I can't believe I forgot this one!)
Buffy - Buffy/Giles (thanks to lynne &
spuffyduds)
Star Wars:The Phantom Menace - Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan (thanks to
modillian)
Smallville - Clark/Lex (where Clark was raised by the Luthors - thanks to
liviapenn)
Cruel Intentions and Dangerous Liaisons (step brother/step sister) (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
Clueless and The Battle of Jack & Rose (step brother/step sister) (thanks to
kiki_miserychic)
Fullmetal Alchemist - Edward Elric/Roy Mustang (thanks to
loves_bitch)
Profit - Profit/Bobbie (his step-mother - thanks to
executrix)
DC fandom -
liviapenn lists a whole host of pairings (with background for each)
here and
here.
caia_comica has another example
here.
Numb3rs - Charlie/Larry (Thanks to
pro_f_iler)
Bleach - Byakuya/Rukia (thanks to
anenko)
Artemis Fowl - Artemis/Butler (thanks to
kelly_holden)
Baby-Sitters Club -various (thanks to
wisdomeagle)
Passions - Chad/Whitney (thanks to
thelana)
Heroes - Peter/Claire (brother/sister - maybe) (thanks to
sunryse00)
Drake & Josh - Drake/Josh (thanks to
hiddenw)
Life With Derek - Derek/Casey, Derek/Victoria (thanks to
destineyjen)
Guiding Light - Jonathan Randall/Tammy Winslow, Henry Cooper Bradshaw/Eva Peralta, Joshua Lewis/Cassie Winslow, Alan/Beth Spaulding (thanks to
destineyjen) CANON
As the World Turns - Holden Snyder/Lily Walsh-Snyder (thanks to
destineyjen) CANON
Rugrats - Chuckie/Kimi (thanks to
destineyjen)
Martin Mystery - Martin Mystery/Diana Lombard (thanks to
destineyjen) CANON
Kana - Little Syster (game) (thanks to
thelana)
Like I said, if anyone knows their particular fandom well & can contibute to this, please comment!!