Comments | jadall: OOC Question: Theorycrafting

jadall

OOC Question: Theorycrafting - Talents

Mar 08, 2012 04:36

So, I'm not sure what the level of interest in theorycrafting is for this community but I aim to find out today. That said, theorycrafting can sometimes turn into a debate and it goes without saying that everyone will remain friendly even if they disagree. Behave! >8[

I just recently had the mixed experience of playing alongside a paladin that liked ( Read more... )

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so long it needed two posts awhisperofdusk March 8 2012, 17:14:03 UTC

This is something I struggle a lot with, actually ( ... )

2/2 awhisperofdusk March 8 2012, 17:14:26 UTC

But there's this instinctual gut NO that comes forward when classes that powerful start having more abilities. Mages, for example, are intensely OP if they're battle-oriented. Teleportation, forcing people to change shape, putting /fire/ in people-- all these things can be game-breaking already, and tagging extra abilities on makes the problem even worse. For many people whose characters are on the lower end of the totem-pole of ~super magical awesome~ ability, like rogues, this seems like taking Godzilla and giving him laser beams ( ... )

Re: so long it needed two posts blightheart March 8 2012, 17:50:12 UTC

A death knight who was a rogue pre-death would have some idea of how to use daggers and do things like kidney shot or stealth. It might be harder for them now-- years of death and such making them rusty-- but the basics would still be there. They'd never be as good as someone whose career it was, but they'd be better than average. Much better.

I have to say something about this because it's actually one of my twitchy points, because death knights and daggers are a splendid example of game mechanics interfering with common sense.

A death knight is a master of blades and specializes in stabbing things in the face, but they're incapable of using any blade shorter than... what, a foot? More? Some of those "daggers" in game are awfully compensatory if you catch my drift... But seriously, look at this. Compare Dirk's Command vs Keleseth's Blade of Evocation. Guess which one is the dagger? Yeah, the one that gnome can't even wear without leaving a groove in the ground ( ... )

Re: so long it needed two posts awhisperofdusk March 8 2012, 18:08:11 UTC

I'd argue there's a difference between being able to stab someone with a dagger, and being able to wield it in a skilled manner, which rogues are especially trained for.

Death knights are shown to have been trained in larger weapons, which doesn't preclude daggers, true, but doesn't mean they know how to wield them like a rogue would, or a death knight who used to be a rogue. It's the same for someone like Aenstrian-- he can use daggers in game, and I write him as having some knowledge beyond 'pointy end goes in', but he'll never be able to fight with daggers the way a rogue could. A dagger is the bread and butter of a rogue. There are different styles for every type of blade, and I'm not sure Arthas would be training his death knights to use daggers. I imagine most skill with daggers would have to be of a personal initiative.

And Blizzard's designs rarely make sense. I'm using 'dagger' in the sense of what the word is supposed to mean, not Blizzard's strange ideas of bigger=better.

Re: so long it needed two posts blightheart March 8 2012, 18:24:08 UTC

Oh, no argument there that a death knight wouldn't be good with one necessarily, my objection is more at the notion that they are completely incapable of using them for even the basic purpose served by a pointy weapon.

If a dagger were a stove, I'm not saying death knights should be able to cook a gourmet meal, but I do think they could probably figure out how to boil water, if that makes more sense? xD

Re: so long it needed two posts awhisperofdusk March 8 2012, 19:08:19 UTC

Fully agreed-- everyone should be able to use a dagger, since as you noted, housewives world over have more than mastered the 'pick it up and stab' thing.

Their base skill would be much higher than the general population too, and likely even someone like Aenstrian who has some instruction. I think warriors and non-healy paladins are in the same boat with death knights. The basic reflexes and instincts would carry them through large parts of training.

Someone like Aenstrian might know the movements theoretically, but he has none of the physical/muscle memory that someone trained to use a blade would. Aen with a blade vs any class that uses blades in a fight, and he would lose pretty quick.

Re: so long it needed two posts thistle_chaser March 8 2012, 20:40:11 UTC

I think it makes sense applying that to everything. A mage should be able to use a mace, assuming he can lift it. Would he be good at it? No. Might he end up knocking himself out instead? Sure. But he should be able to try. If he's standing behind a door with the weapon cocked, he should be able to hit someone coming through it... no matter what the game says.

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