OOC Question: Theorycrafting - Talents
So, I'm not sure what the level of interest in theorycrafting is for this community but I aim to find out today. That said, theorycrafting can sometimes turn into a debate and it goes without saying that everyone will remain friendly even if they disagree. Behave! >8[
I just recently had the mixed experience of playing alongside a paladin that liked ( Read more... )
I just recently had the mixed experience of playing alongside a paladin that liked ( Read more... )
A bunch of my characters have different backgrounds and things that would give them abilities outside their class. It's not unusual for that to be-- and it really shouldn't be unusual, as people have skills outside the 'typical' skillset all the time. A teacher who's a crackshot, or a office-worker who's an awesome diver.
Aenstrian and Saeyn are my big notables for cross-classing. Aenstrian isn't as 'bad' as Saeyn. He had some training with fel magic, and spent a couple years as an apprentice warlock. Saeyn was a full warlock for several decades until around a year into Wrath. Saeyn's a hunter now.
The thing I struggle with is how much they remember of and use fel magic. Aenstrian was a low-level warlock, for all his brilliance. Probably around level 40 for the first few years of fel magic use in SMC. Powerful for starting out, but ultimately nothing of consequence. Having dropped fel magic and not practiced for years, what does he know? Especially as an academic who wouldn't forget his knowledge?
I've rolled with the idea that he probably still has a basic idea of fel magic manipulation, but I'm leery of going any further. He doesn't run around throwing around curses-- his lingering addiction to fel magic makes it dangerous for him to do that. Also, the new spells make him blanch, and even the modern methods are mostly theoretical for him. If he walked into a class of lowbie warlocks, they'd find his usage of fel very archaic and probably really basic.
Saeyn is harder. He started as a mage, became a warlock, and then became a hunter. The entire thing leaves me going WHAT DO. I figure he's forgotten a lot of the more intricate things of arcane and elemental magic, having been very rawr i am a warlock. But what does he remember of being a warlock? It was only like a year or two ago. .___. He's got IC reasons not to use it gratuitously- he had a mishap with a felguard that's left him with Issues with fel magic. But if pushed to it, he'd use it. So what abilities would he have? I know he's a mediocre hunter. IC, he'd be like a level 20 hunter. If he was ever in a life or death situation, he'd default right back to fel magic, though. But on a day to day basis, he's a hunter.
How do you RP that out? It's part of the reason he isn't in game yet, though he'll likely be my insta-80.
On a more general level, having a character with multiple skillsets isn't something that gets my hackles up. It'd be hypocritical at best. :x The thing is, my reaction is largely based on whether or not it feels IC or OOC. Is it a desperate grab for an 'I win!' button, or does it make sense ICly and not make the character OP?
A warrior blood elf knowing bits and pieces of magic makes /sense/, especially if their entire family was made of mages. But there's no way they'd be running around casting something like time warp and pyroblast. It smacks of 'I win!' buttoning. As Norrien noted, classes that are similar also have leeway-- a rogue dipping their bullets in poison makes sense, though giving them every hunter ability ever smacks of 'I win!'.
I'm also more leery the more powerful the class is. A mage wandering around in plate who can cast without problem sounds like a munchkin way of abusing RP leeway. I'd admittedly be even wary of a mage wandering around in mail who had a bit of a handicap. The player would need to be good, and I'd have to have some sense OOCly that this isn't being done to be the badass on the block.
I'm both forgiving and not for classes that are new or death knights. A character who was re-rolled as a warrior or druid or whatever would have to retain skills from their previous class, otherwise I'd wonder how hard they hit their head. .__. This applies to death knights too. A death knight who was a rogue pre-death would have some idea of how to use daggers and do things like kidney shot or stealth. It might be harder for them now-- years of death and such making them rusty-- but the basics would still be there. They'd never be as good as someone whose career it was, but they'd be better than average. Much better.
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It might be IC, but players who do that (like me) are doing a dangerous balancing act. I would be unlikely to ever bring up the warlock abilities Saeyn has unless with RPers who I trusted, and trusted me in turn. Aenstrian has only been forced to dabble in fel magic once in a scene, and I tried to keep it really simple and fumbling. I also RPed out the high he got from futzing about with it. Even then, I was very 8x at doing it. Even with OOC contact, things like that can ruffle feathers. But it fit the scene, and Aenstrian would do it, so I let him do his thing.
The entire thing is a complex mess, imo.
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I have to say something about this because it's actually one of my twitchy points, because death knights and daggers are a splendid example of game mechanics interfering with common sense.
A death knight is a master of blades and specializes in stabbing things in the face, but they're incapable of using any blade shorter than... what, a foot? More? Some of those "daggers" in game are awfully compensatory if you catch my drift... But seriously, look at this. Compare Dirk's Command vs Keleseth's Blade of Evocation. Guess which one is the dagger? Yeah, the one that gnome can't even wear without leaving a groove in the ground.
It's completely nonsensical.
It's like saying that you're a professional mechanic but you can't change your own oil.
Are the concepts different? Well, different enough, but come on! Irate housewives all over the world have mastered the concept of homicidal knife use!
In conclusion, having a death knight who can't figure out a basic knife just makes me think of this. (Warning for use of R-Word)
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Death knights are shown to have been trained in larger weapons, which doesn't preclude daggers, true, but doesn't mean they know how to wield them like a rogue would, or a death knight who used to be a rogue. It's the same for someone like Aenstrian-- he can use daggers in game, and I write him as having some knowledge beyond 'pointy end goes in', but he'll never be able to fight with daggers the way a rogue could. A dagger is the bread and butter of a rogue. There are different styles for every type of blade, and I'm not sure Arthas would be training his death knights to use daggers. I imagine most skill with daggers would have to be of a personal initiative.
And Blizzard's designs rarely make sense. I'm using 'dagger' in the sense of what the word is supposed to mean, not Blizzard's strange ideas of bigger=better.
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If a dagger were a stove, I'm not saying death knights should be able to cook a gourmet meal, but I do think they could probably figure out how to boil water, if that makes more sense? xD
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Their base skill would be much higher than the general population too, and likely even someone like Aenstrian who has some instruction. I think warriors and non-healy paladins are in the same boat with death knights. The basic reflexes and instincts would carry them through large parts of training.
Someone like Aenstrian might know the movements theoretically, but he has none of the physical/muscle memory that someone trained to use a blade would. Aen with a blade vs any class that uses blades in a fight, and he would lose pretty quick.
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