Konoha timelines
Initially most of this was supposed to go into an essay on Konoha history and the evolution of its mentality and structures, but I ended up separating the timeline studies. There isn't a lot of exact dates concerning the past events in the manga. So to those telling me that I'm only putting estimations and not exact dates:
I know.
Many (though not all) of these timelines are theories or estimates based on a number of factors such as character age, relative manga events, cited periods of war and even theories on the context back then. Some should be accurate within a few years, others could be way off. Part of the people both this timeline and the resulting history essay target are actually fanfic writers: we want You, to write good gen fics that make use of historical elements. =D Well, I'd like that anyway. There aren't enough of those.
Some people might argue that Kishimoto could have not thought up the dates of his timeline properly. I tend to believe that he does have a rough timeline at hand, because it's actually pretty easy to invent one on his own. There might be mix-ups on the dates and details, but an overall sequence of events is pretty easy to invent.
0. Foreword
I. General character information
I.1. Birth year chart
I.2. Chuunin exams age chart
I.3. General character Academy and Chuunin exams graduation chart
II. Recent events
II.1. Uchiha Massacre timeline
II.2. Kakashi Gaiden timeline
III. Legendary Sannin timeline estimates
III.1. Orochimaru timelines: departure from Konoha, Akatsuki and Sound
III.2. Tsunade timelines: death of Nawaki and Dan, departure from Konoha
III.3. Jiraiya, Yondaime, and wrap-up
IV. Estimation of Konoha history
IV.1. The Foundation of Konoha: Shodai, Nidaime, Sandaime
IV.2. The Great Wars and times of Peace
IV.3. Others: the Konoha Police Force. Sakumo
V. Other villages
V.1. Zabuza and the Mist graduation exams
V.2. Suna, Sasori, and the death of Sandaime Kazekage
0. Foreword
Databook 1: The databook 1 lists information about the various cast in the first half of part 1, up till the Naruto vs Gaara fight. It takes place when the Konoha cast is 12.
Databook 2: The databook 2 lists information about the rest of the events until the end of part 1. It takes place when the Konoha cast is 13.
Hero Book: A mini-databook of sorts, that was included in one of the issues of Shounen Jump in early part 2. It was before team 8 and team 10 (save Shikamaru) even showed back up, and doesn't give a lot of new information either.
A number of the databook 2 entries have already been translated. I have a databook translation compile if you need to find more information.
For most of the timelines, I will be placing dates as compared to the end of part 1. The 0.5 in the "2.5 years after the timeskip" is simply too troublesome for me to deal with. So when I say "10 years ago," it means "10 years before the end of part 1." Depending on the contents of the timelines, I might also use other timeline origins. If you get confused, here:
Much thanks to the translators who have translated big parts of databook 2, and big thanks in particular to Sho was very kind to help me with a number of untranslated passages, thereby giving me a better view of what could have happened back then. Thank you so much! =D
Warning: there might be some mistakes, as it's sometimes hard to read those blothes in there. If you find any mistakes, do inform me!
I. General character information
I.1. Birth year chart
Unlike the Great Naruto Timeline by Enrique Suave, I did not attempt to give the exact days of events. Enrique Suave had observed that there are some inconsistencies between birth years and graduation years based on listed ages, so it's likely that Kishimoto himself is only giving approximations.
My chart simply lists the characters by age at the end of Part I, meaning as listed in databook 2, 13 years after the Kyuubi attack. For the characters that are listed in Databook 1 and not Databook 2, I have simply added a year to their age. The purpose is not to get a detailed listing of events, but rather a general view on tendencies and demographics that I needed for the study of other timelimes.
And yes, I know that the sample of people used is too small to get an accurate view of demographics. On the other hand, you could view things this way: what are the odds of meeting only 28 years-old jounin when most of the jounin are say... 34? Get the idea? I've already said that some of the timelines are highly theoritical, and I might as well start somewhere.
At the end of the character section of each databook, there is also a list of minor characters. I have included the listed shinobi, but not:
- characters that were only present in flashbacks of undetermined dates (since I have no idea how old they'd be Now)
- civilians, as their birth tendencies are less likely to be affected by factors such as war.
I.2. Chuunin exams age chart
The afore-mentioned minor character section of the databook 1 also includes a number of the genins from various villages that participated in the Chuunin exams.
They don't represent All of the genins during the exams, but Kishimoto probably didn't go out of his way to only show the Oldest participants, so they should represent a good "normal" average.
Observations:
We know that it's been years since Rookies have participated during the exams, and these figures seem to go even further: if you don't count the core, supposedly "talented" cast, the average age of all the other participants is actually 18.8 (not counting "Norman" either). We also see that Suna might not have been joking about their increased individual training: the two other Suna shinobi genin listed were 16, actually younger than the majority of 18+ Konoha participants. Mostly though, this chart shows the talent of the "core" team:
- Temari, Kankurou and Gaara were 15, 14 and 12 respectively, younger than the majority of the cast. According to Kankurou, Temari might already have become chuunin if she had taken the exams earlier.
- the Sound 3 weren't too bad considering that they were "just" 14.
- Neji and Lee were considered among the strongest Konoha genin even though they were only 13. Tenten seemed confident as well. Gai must be quite the teacher! =D
- then we have the Rookie 9. Just for getting past the first two tests on first try, even when competing against 19 years-olds, I'd say All of them are well above-average.
So to those who feel like it: take this to anybody who bashes any of them. They're All very talented for their age, even those who don't seem so (but that's only because they're being compared to characters who are More exceptionally talented, main characters, bloodline-wielders and bijuu containers oblige).
Notice the 38 years-old by the way. He's the one some of the rest of us refer to jokingly as Norman. =D He's lived through two shinobi wars. o_o
I have other observations on all this, such as how the academy graduation date seems to have been prolonged from 10 to 12 recently, but that will be addressed in more detail in my essay on Konoha History, not here.
I.3. General character Academy and Chuunin exams graduation chart
You've noticed the red part: that period corresponds more or less with the period I believe to be the Third Great Shinobi War. I just added that to remind people that the context was very different.
I.4. Registration number chart
The shinobi registration number is assigned when the shinobi graduates from the academy. Apparently, it doesn't matter whether they pass the genin test or not. The Rookie 9 have numbers range from 12601 to 12625, so unless the difference is accounted for by other classes we haven't heard of, then the rest of the numbers must have been assigned to other students in their class.
Don't ask me what happens to students after they fail the genin exams. It's said that they're "sent back to the Academy." What happens afterwards is unclear (wouldn't the Naruto cast have noticed if so many students stayed back? In fact, wouldn't Iruka have maintained two thirds of his old class instead of taking up Konohamaru's class? Unless those students got sent to another class, or many simply quit the academy).
Personally I think that graduating from the academy and becoming genin are two separate things. It's like how you can graduate from high-school, but don't necessarily get to enter university. It contradicts the "sent back to the Academy" statement, but it's what would make sense. You could perhaps graduate (and get your number), but you have to prove yourself to the jounins before they take you on as student genin. In the meantime, you could either stay in the academy, train by yourself to take the genin tests again another time, or quit altogether. At least, this is my theory.
Another question is how Naruto failed the graduation test 3 times and still managed to graduate at the same time as others. Don't ask me either, I also don't know. The theories that I've come across are:
- he failed practice tests
- he entered the Academy early because he's an orphan, but failed the tests when time came (problem: flashbacks seem to place him in the same class as others from the Rookie 9 for longer than 1 year)
- he re-took the test several times right after failing, and failed all these re-takes
All in all, don't ask me. It might just be one of Kishimoto's goof-ups. Kabuto was in the same situation: he failed 3 times, but still managed to graduate at what seemed to be the usual age of 10 back then.
The registration numbers also seem eratic at times. Personally I think those in charge have assigned relatively telling numbers to the younger cast, then gave random ones to the older ones based approximately on their age, because otherwise, some of the jumps in there don't make sense...
II. Recent events
II.1. Uchiha Massacre timeline
I've already made a separate post on this. Back then, this was supposed to be the only spin-off... Ah well, I'm sticking this into this post as well so that all the timelines will be gathered together. If anybody has linked to that post: please replace the link, as I'm deleting that post to replace with this one.
Notes on the Mangekyou moments:
Day 1: Sasuke receives his first semester card. That evening, he overhears his father and Itachi talk about the elusive Uchiha meeting and secret mission.
Day 2: The mission and the meeting occur. Shisui dies.
Day 3: While Sasuke talks to Itachi, they are confronted by the Uchiha Police.
The reason there doesn't seem to be a timeskip between the events is the following:
- we see Sasuke getting his first semester report card. We see the same report card a few pages later, when Sasuke is talking to Itachi, right before the Konoha police shows up.
- the Konoha police mentions the same meeting Sasuke heard of that night.
- the Konoha police mentions the fact that Itachi has been Anbu for 6 months as well.
It is afterwards that a timeskip occurs. The Katon training occurs some time during this timeskip, though the exact date is hard to determine. Sasuke was between 6 and 8.
II.2. Kakashi Gaiden timeline
Databook information: (Academy Graduation / Chuunin Promotion)
- Kakashi: 5 / 8. He was 27 at the end of part 1, which means he was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked.
- Obito: 9 / 11. He died during the Gaiden at age 13.
- Rin: 9 / 11.
We don't know Rin's age or age of death, probably because the databook must either list her current age (irrelevent because she'd dead) or her age of death (which Kishimoto might have not decided to reveal). I personally believe that she should be around the same age as Obito.
From now on I will assume that Rin is the same age as Obito to simplify matters. At most there is a 1-year margin of error.
We know the following from the manga:
- At the beginning of Kakashi Gaiden, the expression "About 10 years ago" was also used, though it was actually a semi-mistranslation. The actual expression was closer to "over 10 years ago." What's more, we know they took place before Yondaime lost his life during the Kyuubi attack, 13 years ago (so... over 10 years ago...).
- Yondaime says that Kakashi's father, Sakumo, died "5 years ago."
- back then, Yondaime was still a Jounin.
Now for Kakashi's age:
Possibility #1: Simultaneous graduation from the Academy, then placement onto the same genin team.
This would make Kakashi 4 years younger than Obito and make him 9 years-old when Obito died.
Problem: this is the drawn difference between 2 kids with a 4 years difference (8 years-old Konohamaru and 12 years-old Naruto):
As you can see, Kakashi looks nowhere as much younger as Obito. This is why I usually go with possibility #2.
Possibility #2: Kakashi was about 12. The events took place 15 years ago.
Based on height comparisons: Kakashi seems just a bit younger than Obito: around 12, give or take a year.
This would also mean that Kakashi and Obito did not graduate at the same time.
Because of the war, team recomposition would not have been surprising. So:
- either Kakashi ended on Obito's team one day, perhaps after his team or Obito's got broken up
- or on the contrary, Kakashi started out as Yondaime's solo apprentice (like Anko seemed to be with Orochimaru), but for whatever reasons, Yondaime may have decided to take on two extra subordinates later on. If Kakashi was 12, then his father would have died when he was 7, when he was already genin. Yondaime might have taken on an entire team for Kakashi, to prevent him from isolating himself.
I personally believe in the second explanation because Yondaime seemed to know Kakashi well, and could explain what Kakashi must have felt when he lost his father 5 years ago. If Yondaime were already Kakashi's teacher, then obviously, he'd know him that well. Anyway, the chart:.
Third Great Shinobi War deductions
We know that Third Great Shinobi Wars ended between the times of the Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.
For convenience sake, I usually just place the end of the war around 1 year before the Kyuubi attack. The time for the beginning of the war is unclear, though I personally theorize that it began over 5 years ago, when Sakumo killed himself after a failed crucial mission. I will address this in more detail in part IV.3. so that you'd get a more global view of the wars.
Yondaime Hokage deductions
Yondaime could have become Hokage right after the Second shinobi war, perhaps after proving his valor during then. Kyuubi attacked shortly after this.
This is also probably why Sandaime retains the title of "Greatest Hokage in History." In the worst case scenarios, Yondaime may have been Hokage for just weeks or even days before he died, so he didn't exactly have time to be the greatest any kage. XD
When did Rin die? There's absolutely no way of knowing. Maybe Rin died during the Kyuubi attack, which would explain why Kakashi didn't show an earlier interest and respect to his teacher's legacy, Naruto (there's no real explanation given, reallly).
III. Legendary Sannin timeline estimates
- All of the Legendary Sannin were born 51 years ago from the end of part 1
- They graduated at age 6, meaning 45 years ago.
- The Kyuubi attacked when they were 38.
III.1. Orochimaru timelines: departure from the Konoha, Akatsuki and Sound
Orochimaru's departure
Anko's profile:
- she was 24 by databook 1, meaning she was 12 when the Kyuubi attack occured.
- She graduated the Academy at age 10, probably becoming Orochimaru's student. She graduated at age 12, the year of the Kyuubi attack.
Orochimaru stated in his fight against Sandaime that he left "over ten years ago." He probably left After Yondaime was at least designated as successor, because during the flashback in that fight, Sandaime explains that one of the reasons he didn't chose Orochimaru as Yondaime because of his twisted ideologies:
- there were other reasons. There wouldn't need to be if Orochimaru had simply become a missing-nin.
- if Orochimaru's experiments were discovered Before, there'd be no choosing. You don't "choose" a fugitive.
See? Sandaime likely knew that something was wrong with Orochimaru (he suspected something since Orochimaru was very young), but hadn't discovered the experiments yet. That coupled with the valor Yondaime displayed during the war may have pushed Sandaime to name Yondaime as next Hokage instead. As for when the experiments started:
- if the experiments started before, then Sandaime might have chosen Yondaime for successor instead out of suspicion for Orochimaru's activities.
- if, on the contrary, they started after, then it might be partly out of spite for Yondaime being designated as successor.
Both are equally valid, and offer an equal amount of possibilities.
In the meantime, I think that Orochimaru left when Yondaime was still alive. Otherwise, Sandaime would have spoke of the Godaime rank instead. At worst, it was shortly after.
Another detail is that Jiraiya had never seen the seal Yondaime had left on Naruto before. If he were already off chasing Orochimaru, it'd explain why he didn't show a bigger interest in his student's legady. After that, Jiraiya remained solely pre-occupied by Orochimaru.
Neither Orochimaru nor Jiraiya seemed present at the Kyuubi attack, in any case (Sandaime had the excuse of being old. The Legendary Sannin were 38, which would still place them at an age to fight). Kyuubi might have attacked when both were away.
How did Anko learn Orochimaru's techniques so quickly? She might not have mastered them yet, instead perfected them after he's left. Also notice that she graduated at around the time the war ended. Orochimaru might have been pressured to take on an apprentice because the war was finally over.
Akatsuki
We don't know when Orochimaru joined Akatsuki. All we know is that Sasori was his partner.
The biggest question is how long Akatsuki was around in the first place. Kisame for example was merely 29 by databook 2, which means he was merely 16 when Orochimaru left Konoha and the Kyuubi attacked. Then again, Itachi killed his clan at age 13, and Akatsuki members can change members, so we don't know if this is indicative. Orochimaru may have joined right after he left the village, or joined a few years later if Akatsuki was only created later on.
Orochimaru then left Akatsuki 7 years ago" from the end of part 1. He actually stated that he left because of Itachi. Interestingly enough, the departure is indeed right at the year when Itachi became Anbu then gained the Mangekyou.
Disclaimer: I am note making any speculations as to the exact circumstances of Orochimaru's departure (and honestly, I don't really care). There are lots of possibilities. I'm just doing the timeline. =\
Sound
Orochimaru founded the village of Sound some time after he left the organization. He probably gathered the various shinobi after wandering around some time.
Sound shinobi and mission logs:
- the Sound 3 were 14 during the Chuunin exams. Had they survived, they'd be 15 by now. D 23, C 12.
- the Sound 4 were 14 according to databook 2. Rather young eh? Could be Orochimaru's experiments. D 22, C 15, B 8, A 2, S 1.
- Kimimaro was actually 15. He sure looked older. B 15, A 5, S 2.
Comparison:
- Rookie 9: 8 missions total in databook 1. About 12 in databook 2.
- Tenten from the previous year had D 24, C 13 by the end of databook 2. By then she had been a genin for about 2 years.
Assuming that the Sound genin didn't get a lot more missions than the Konoha genin (it's not like missions were a priority to Orochimaru):
- the Sound 3 probably started taking missions at age 12, at year 10 A.K., before taking the chuunin exams at age 14.
- the Sound 4, because of the B-rank missions, might or might not have taken missions for a year longer. They'd have thus started at either age 11 or 12, at years 10 ~ 11 A.K.
- it's much harder to tell for Kimimaro, because Kimimaro became sick. Orochimaru seems to have come across him when he was still very young. If Kimimaro was 7 or 8, this would have placed their encounter within a year of Orochimaru's departure from Akatsuki.
All this means that the Sound village existed at least 2 years since before the chuunin exams. It could have been around a bit longer if Orochimaru needed time to enhance the infrastructure.
Orochimaru has likely gathered many before the foundation of the Sound however, such as for Kimimaro and Zaku. These particular Sound shinobi seem to consider themselves as having a personal relation with Orochimaru, probably because Orochimaru approached them on a one-on-one basis.
This is not necessarily the case of the other Sound shinobi shown: they could have been traitors to other villages, or shinobi from the country where Orochimaru settled down, "pawns" that Orochimaru didn't even bother lying to (lying to about 10 on a one-on-one basis is still okay, it gets silly after a few hundred). Besides, those others weren't entrusted with anything in particular besides fighting).
After finding a number of "pawns," Orochimaru would have started training and experimenting with them. Setting up the village itself might otherwise not have been as complicated as one might think, since it was stated that any country would want him. By the time the Sound village was set up, the Sound 3 and Sound 5 could have been ready to start taking missions, which would place the foundation of Sound at the afore-mentioned 3 years before the end of part 1, when the main Konoha cast was 10.
III.2. Tsunade timelines: death of Nawaki and Dan, departure from the Konoha
Nawaki and Dan's deaths
The exact dates of Nawaki and Dan's deaths are among the biggest headaches I've had, because Tsunade doesn't look the same age in any of the panels, argh:
- here Tsunade seems to be the same age around Nawaki and Dan.
- here she seems much younger around Nawaki, then much older when she met Dan, except she looks yet younger again around Dan a few pages later.
- and while her change of hairstyle may have suggested much time going past, this frame shows that she was using both hairstyles when Nawaki was alive.
Wtf? This page seems to suggest that Dan died the day after Tsunade met him, but there must have been a timeskip in-between because this shows them spending time together. Up to several years might have passed: Tsunade would have had time to know Dan very well, and had time to earn her fame as medic (she must have studied medics extra hard after Nawaki's death).
In the meantime, I tend to believe that not That much time must have passed between the moment Nawaki died and the moment Tsunade met Dan (to hell with uneven art), and that they died during the same war (the Second Shinobi Wars, according to a profile of one of the minor characters -bottom of page 169-). The reasons are the following:
- Orochimaru specifically stated that Nawaki died because there were no medics on the battlefield.
- Tsunade met Dan when she was arguing for the benefit of including more medics on the battlefield. She likely wouldn't wait too long after Nawaki's death before suggesting such an idea. At most she had been arguing for some time.
- Sandaime then specifically said that they couldn't do so because they were in the middle of a war and lacked resources. If there was a period of peace in between, then Tsunade could have used this opportunity to push the advance of medics without facing resource problems.
I did attempt to look into the shinobi registration numbers by the way. It didn't really help:
- unless Nawaki graduated at an older age than Mikoto did (unlikely?), then he should be at least as young as her when he graduated. Mikoto would be 40 today if she had survived. This means there'd be a 10 years age difference between Tsunade and Nawaki. Tsunade didn't look That much taller, and Jiraiya didn't even seem to have finished growing, so it's likely a case of bad numbering. :S
- Dan's graduation number means he graduated after Tsunade, at age 10. This means Tsunade could be at most 4 years younger than him, so at least 23 when Dan died. His registration number would suggest more years that that, but as I've said already said, the increase in registration numbers seem to be random at times.
I personally place Tsunade at about 17 when Nawaki died at age 12, simply because Kishimoto has so far had two other cases of siblings with a 5 years difference in age: Kiba and Hana, Sasuke and Itachi. It fits just about everything else too. *shrugs*
As for Dan, I personally think she was about 22~23 when Dan died, and that his death was near the end of the war. Irony aside, this is because the shock of his death must have left Tsunade at least momentarily unable to accomplish her duties. Yet Jiraiya said "She was the one that brought us victory in the battle." It wouldn't have been the case if she spent most of the war cowering.
And if the war did end when she was in her early 20's, it becomes less surprising for her to say that Kabuto surpasses her prime in certain areas. It'd be basically 20 years-old Kabuto vs 23 years-old Tsunade when she was best during the Second Great War and still not boggled down by her blood phobia.
The reason for the 22~23 timeframe is also that it'd place the resulting peace could account for an apparent baby-boom (something that as ew-younerd once noted, is normal after a war) where all the jounin were born (see birth chart). Even though it's a small sample, as I've already said, what are the odds?
This would explain why most of the "Konoha Elite" we see all seem to belong to the same age group. =.= Anybody else ever wondered why we don't see many many jounin slightly older and perhaps more powerful and experienced than the ones we've seen (save the semi-retired parents)? Ones that wouldn't get owned so easily by the Akatsuki despite being considered among Konoha's best? Wtf?
In particular, we've recently learned that Asuma is Sandaime's son. He'd would have been born when Sandaime is 41! However, it'd make some sense if war had prevented Sandaime from having another child earlier.
Is 23 a bit young for Tsunade to have achieved fame already? I kind of doubt it:
- one of Tsunade's achievements is finding a counter to Chiyo's poison, for example. Now Sakura countered Sasori's poison in just one day by age 15. She'd be famous by now if she showed up during a war where the poison had already done damage. =\
- Naruto there is going to have a mega S-class jutsu surpassing Yondaime's at age 15 as well. =\
When you're pressed, and when you have a good teacher, you achieve great things at a young age. The Legendary Sannin had been trained by Sandaime since they were 6...
Tsunade has likely then recovered to a point that she can still perform medics, as long as there isn't too much blood around:
- Orochimaru knew she could heal his hands
- Jiraiya thought her capable of handling the Hokage role
- when Naruto and Jiraiya found her, she was still acting loud and well... loud.
So some time after the war, she must have seemed okay at least on the surface. But given the shock she faced right after Dan's death, she probably needed some time.
Tsunade's departure
Possibility #1: She left right after the war.
If she retired or left after the war, then Shizune's profile suggests that she returned to the village some time around the time of the Kyuubi massacre, and took Shizune as apprentice then. However, she knew Yondaime after he created "that impossible jutsu" (the Rasengan), which could mean she stayed for some time after the war, assuming that Yondaime didn't create it when he was very young. Then again, Yondaime just Might have created Rasengan when he was very young.
Possibility #2: She left afterwards
If she left at the same time as Shizune, it'd be quite a while later. It is quite possible that despite the shock, she remained in the village, slightly broken, either retired or still attempting to do her job. Orochimaru and Jiraiya still deemed her fit to heal much later on, so it's not like she was suddenly incapable of being a medic.
Shizune's profile:
Shizune: age 28 (same birth year as Obito?).
Graduated: 9 (19 years ago, when Tsunade was 34).
Chuunin: 13 (15 years ago, when Tsunade was 38).
Mission log: D 74, C 44, B 18, A 3 (the A-rank missions might be due to after her return to Konoha)
By comparison, Obito had D 86, C 24, B 24 and A 1. He graduated from the Academy at age 9, became a chuunin at age 11 and died at age 13.
Personal interpretation: Shizune had more C-rank missions because she's been a genin longer than Obito. However, Obito had more B-rank missions. It could either be due to his teacher, to the fact that he was a chuunin during the war whereas Shizune graduated near the end of the war, or due to Shizune being a chuunin for less long than Obito.
She could have left with Tsunade less than 2 years after becoming chuunin. So Tsunade left either:
- shortly after the war (perhaps the war brought back painful memories of loss, or perhaps the sight of blood finally made her decide to "retire" again).
- shortly after Orochimaru and Jiraiya left (something that could have made her extra bitter)
- or even shortly after the Kyuubi attack. Orochimaru had left, Jiraiya had gone to chase him, and Yondaime was alone in fighting Kyuubi. His death would no doubt have brought back bitter memories. It could have been the final straw.
Jiraiya then comments that she's changed a lot. He likely knew what kind of person she was right after the Second Shinobi War, so something might have changed her even more. She attributes this cynicism to age, but it could also be due to her observing the Third Shinobi War, then Yondaime's death.
III.3. Jiraiya, Yondaime, and wrap-up
Yondaime
We don't know anything on Yondaime's age. We only know that he graduated the academy at age 10, for what it's worth.
At first I made a possibly irrelevant comparison: Yondaime Kazekage was 40 when he died. During the time of the Kyuubi attack, that would have put his age at 27. For Yondaime Hokage, I think that'd be just about right: he was probably in his mid or later twenties at the time of his death.
I then found a more interesting reasoning: simply taking the date Jiraiya graduated from the academy (probably to be trained by Sandaime), the date Kakashi graduated (probably to be trained by Yondaime), take the middle year, add a few years to account for the fact that Yondaime graduated at age 10 and not at ages 5 or 6 like Kakashi and Jiraiya did, and voila! I got this:
Wrap-up
The wrap-up is the loose ends. Jiraiya must have left when Orochimaru did. The strange thing in the meantime is the mission logs.
Jiraiya: D58 C345 B884 A614 S138
Orochimaru: D18 C332 B521 A491 S108
Tsunade: D40 C236 B467 A418 S95
The increased number of missions seems to suggest that Jiraiya was either taking more missions (more enthusiasm perhaps?), or has been active for longer.
In the case of the second explanation, I see two possibilities:
- after the Second Great War, Tsunade might have not have participated in missions during the Third Great War because of her condition, though she might have helped at the hospital or researched medics. Alternatively, she could have retired or left completely. Orochimaru is harder to account for: perhaps during the war, he was focused on research instead of participating in the missions.
- alternatively, Jiraiya might actually not have completely cut ties with Konoha after both Orochimaru and Tsunade left. After chasing around for Orochimaru, he might have returned to the Konoha and accepted a number of missions, as long as they don't detract him from his other goals. This would explain why the Council chose him as the next Hokage: because he wasn't as "nowhere to be found" as Tsunade.
Or the numbers could just be completely random. *shrugs* I'm just suggesting possible explanations. Also notice the relatively low level of D-rank missions by the way (fewer than Obito's 86 when he died!), even though they shouldn't have been able to take on very advanced missions at age 6 and the likes. This might be very well due to the pressures of war, or just due to the fact that early in the existence of Konoha, few people would think of asking them to find cats (who knows?).
Dan (D72 C84 B226 A168 S22) didn't have many D-rank missions either. He didn't seem to have many missions compared to the Legendary Sannin by the way, even considering that he died earlier (since the Legendary Sannin did eventually leave), but then again he isn't one of the Legendary Sannin who graduated at age 6. It might seem to point that Tsunade was still active after the Second Shinobi War. If you are a fanfic writer, you can disregard these numbers completely. Kishimoto might never explain anyway. =\
So there you go. The Legendary Sannin.
IV. Estimation of Konoha history
IV.1. The Foundation of the Konoha: Shodai, Nidaime, Sandaime
Much thanks to Sho for providing the translations of Shodai, Nidaime and Sandaime's databook 1 profiles! =D
Shodai Hokage
Quote: "Conflict is a part of this world..."
Bolded text: The Great Founder of the "Village of Konohagakure"
Dating back to approximately 60 years from now.... The one shinobi who held an outstanding power. He set out to establish a new village by gathering a great number of shinobi to the forest lands. The man who did that was Shodai Hokage, the founder of Konoha. Despite that however, conflict was part of the world at the time. He lost his life within the village during that period.
Nidaime Hokage
Quote: "It's been a long time, Saru..."
After Shodai died, with his dying wish he named Nidaime, who was his younger brother, to be "Hokage". It was due to his efforts that the Ninja Academy was established. However it was just soon thereafter that a great war happened within the shinobi world. He entrusted both the repression of the wars and well-wishes for the flourishing of the village unto the people who worked below him.
Sandaime Hokage
Quote: "No matter what life you live, don't ever forget to protect those important to you!"
Bolded text: The "Professor" revered as the strongest out of all Hokages.
Active since the founding of the village, the man who came to see all of Konoha's progress--from the conflicts to the peace-- is Sandaime Hokage. If there is anyone who is suited to be labeled as the symbol of the village of Konohagakure, then it is him.
etc.
Konoha was thus founded "around 60 years ago" according to databook 1. The Legendary Sannin were born about 10 years later.
Shodai was Tsunade's grandfather, so from this alone we know that he wasn't young. Most of the fathers seem to have had their children when they were about 25: the InoShikaChou parents had their children at that age, Shibi had Shino at age 26, Fugaku had Itachi at age 27. To simplify, we could assume that Tsunade was born when Shodai was around 50, give or take 10 years (lol @ interval).
This means he founded Konoha when he was about 40. This seems like a very good age estimate to me: he was old enough to command respect among elder clan leaders, and "young" enough to... well... move around. According to his databook profiles though, he lost his life during the turmoils at the beginning of Konoha. His brother Nidaime took on the position instead.
We know that Nidaime created the Konoha Academy after becoming Hokage, as well as made other structural adjustments. The academy was thus around at least when the Legendary Sannin graduated from it at age 6. This also means that Shodai died before Konoha was 16 years old. Nidaime's profile then cites that "a great war" erupted soon after the foundation of the Academy. This leads us to Sandaime's reign.
This scene seems to suggest that Sandaime became Hokage very young, but other information seems to suggest that this was either a dream sequence, or that a time skip has occured between each scene:
- Shodai was dead by the time Nidaime became Hokage, nevermind Sandaime
- the databook profile of the Legendary Sannin states "the man that would later become the Third Hokage." This means Sandaime became Hokage After he took on the Legendary Sannin graduated from the Academy.
- this is further supported from a chronological sequence in the manga: 1, 2, 3. All the other scenes are in chronological order, so Sandaime's nomination to Hokage seems to be in that order as well.
- this scene however suggests that he became Sandaime when the Legendary Sannin were still young: he already had his face carved into the Hokage mountain.
Sandaime was born 69 years ago. He'd be about 8 by the time the Konoha was created, 18 by the time the Legendary Sannin are born and 24 by the time they graduate at age 6. In the flashback, the Legendary Sannin still looked very young, perhaps no older than 10. Sandaime would have been 24 at youngest, 28 at oldest.
Back to Nidaime though: Nidaime was Shodai's younger brother. We don't know by how many years, but I'll just say 5 years as a reasonable estimate (bah, why not, that's the age difference between Kiba and Hana, and between Itachi and Sasuke. I have to start Somewhere). If he was 35 at the time of the foundation of Konoha, he'd be 45 by the time the Legendary Sannin are born, 51 by the time they graduate, and by the time they're 10, he'd be 55. In any case, this estimate shows that he was likely in his 50's when he passed on the title to Sandaime. After this, he may have dedicated to continue protecting the Konoha, only to die as a result.
This last estimates would actually suggest the following: it is normal for a Hokage to maintain his position until he is in his 50's. This might explain why Sandaime didn't chose a successor sooner as well. He might have considered passing on his position as he was nearing his 50's, but the war would have prevented a transfer of leadership. After the war, in acknowledgement of the valor Yondaime showed during the war, while being suspect of Orochimaru as well, Sandaime may have chosen Yondaime to be the next Hokage instead of Orochimaru.
IV.2. The Great Wars and Times of Peace
The Sound and Suna attack against Konoha showed that a battle can be quite short: just one day. However, that flash attack was called "The downfall of Konoha," not a Great Shinobi war. A drawn-out war with military preparations, scattered skirmishes which gradually deplete forces with time instead of causing a severe damage just once, and no immediate surrenders like Suna did (after they've found out that Orochimaru was solely responsible), could potentially last a lot longer.
What's more, the war evoked in the Gaiden involved all 5 countries. It is quite possible that the other Great Wars were of similar scale. Overall, I'd assume that each of them lasted a number of years. You could also think of real life World Wars.
The Foundation
In the beginning, I thought that a great war should have erupted in the early days of Konoha as well. But it was stated that a great war erupted "soon after Nidaime set up the Academy," and assuming that it wasn't the one that took Nawaki and Dan's life, this would set the first great war not Quite so soon. What gives?
Then I remembered this: if Suna and the number of Kages they've had is an indication, all of the major shinobi villages were set up at around the same time. It wouldn't be a coincidence if you consider that all the villages would be taking cues from each other. This means that although battles were common, there wasn't the military infrastructure for full-out wars yet. The villages were too busy forming themselves.
First Great shinobi war and Parents generation
Nidaime's profile stated that a great war erupted not long after he founded the Academy. I theorize this to be the first Great Shinobi War.
Sandaime said in a flashback, where we see the Legendary Sannin but also Sandaime's face carved into the Hokage mountain, that it was "a time of chaos/war." This could mean that the war was still ongoing when the Legendary Sannin had already graduated, and when Sandaime became Hokage. Nidaime likely handed Sandaime his title during this war, and possibly died afterwards in this same war. If you're a fanfic writer looking for dramatics, you could assume that Nidaime handed Sandaime his title, then went on a suicide mission that would help Konoha win the war. *shrugs*
I personally theorize that this war had ended around 40~42 years ago. This is because it'd mark the time of the Parent generation. Yes, it's the baby-boom theory. Bite me, I like it, and I have to start somewhere after all. Besides, we know um... that many children were born around the time of the Rookie 9's birth, and their parents were probably born during this period? =\
Second Great Shinobi war and Jounin/Chuunin generation
As I've already said, I believe Nawaki and Dan to have died during the same war, with no peace periods in-between. Right after this war, there'd be what appears to be a baby-boom.
A question is about Shizune. She was born during this "jounin boom", and she was Dan's niece. If her mother was Dan's sister who died during the war, then it'd kill the theory that the war ended about this time. Sho however was nice enough to point out that the words she used for uncle were 叔父 ("oji"), a term used if Dan were Younger than her parent. This means her mother was indeed not Dan's younger sister. What's more, there has yet to be any indication that she knew Dan personally: she gets mad when Dan is evoked because of how it affects Tsunade, not because of how it affects herself.
So for the moment, the theory still holds.
As for when it started, I think Tsunade was and looked about 17 in flashbacks, but that's just me. The war could have started a couple of years before that (since they were "in the middle" of a war, as opposed to "a war just started").
Finally, I think Suna was at least one of Konoha's main opponents during this war. The reason is that Chiyo mentioned Tsunade. Also, Konoha's main opponents during the Third War seems to be Iwa (Stone), not Suna. The war turned to the better for Konoha as soon as it destroyed the supply path for Iwa, so other countries probably weren't as main opponents as Iwa.
Suna and Konoha actually seemed to be on good enough conditions by the times of the Third Great Shinobi Wars for the Wind country to send it all its clients as soon as they signed an alliance. I don't think they'd have done that if Konoha brought the Wind Country great damage during the war.
Third Great Shinobi war and current generation
The beginning of Kakashi Gaiden states the following:
Over 10 years ago... The Great 5 shinobi countries' governments were in turmoil, and skirmishes involving the villages took place around the borders of each country.
The prolonged wars took away the power of the Fire Country... As the country was severely lacking in military power. A great many of those killed in battle were taken to Konoha village. Afterwards, this was called "The Third Secret World War."
The end states the following:
That long period of fighting ended due to the sacrifice of many nameless shinobi.
We also have the databook 2 profile for the Battle at the Kanabi bridge. It seems to imply that Iwa was Konoha's main opponent then.
The war in its entirety must have been going on for a long time. Furthermore, we know that Sakumo died 5 years ago, while sneaking into enemy territory. The sole failure caused the Fire Country "a great loss," so although "war" wasn't specifically mentioned, I believe that the war had already begun back then. 5 years later, the Fire Country was suffering from the "prolonged wars."
I think that Sakumo died at the beginning of this war, because of the loss that Konoha incurred right after. As said, the Great Wars could have lasted a long time.
If we look at the birth chart again: Sakumo died 20 years ago. During the period from 21 years ago to 15 years ago, we've only seen an average of 1.4 characters per year. This can be compared to the period lasting from 22 to 28 years ago, where we see an average of 4.7 characters per year. That's 3 times more. Again, I know that the sample size isn't big, but what are the odds? This would explain why nearly all of the older casts seem to fit in same-ish age groups: because of more births during those years. Did any of you ever find that fishy? =\
Alternatively, we could think that Sakumo died near the end of the Second Great Shinobi Wars. But assuming that Tsunade was no older than 18 when Nawaki died, Sakumo would have died when she is 31. This means the Second Great Shinobi Wars would have lasted a whooping 13 years, while the Third Great Shinobi Wars would have lasted a mere 2 or 3 years, considering that there would have been at least a Few years of peace in-between (after all, according to the databook Kanabi profile, Konoha was "enjoying prosperity under the rule of Sandaime"). It's still possible of course, I just don't like the idea much and besides, it'd ruin all those pretty baby-boom theories. *dodges rotten tomatoes*
The rest of you can explore the other possibilities yourself, one timeline estimate is enough for me. x_x Speaking of which, here it is:
Peace
I believe that the end of the Third Shinobi War marked the beginning of an era of unprecedented peace.
- during the Kakashi Gaiden events, Konoha was facing Iwa. This means they have at least reached a stand-still after the end of the war.
- the Fire and Wind countries forged an alliance after this war as well, prompting Yondaime Kazekage to seal Shukaku into Gaara in response to the resulting military reductions.
- 3 years after the Kyuubi attack, when Hinata turned 3, a peace treaty was signed with the village of Cloud.
- Mist shinobi were present during the Chuunin exams, which would imply that Konoha at least isn't at full-out war against them.
This means that on paper at least, Konoha is now at peace with all 4 major shinobi villages. The end of the war thus ushered an era of unprecedented peace, interrupted only by the joint Suna and Sound attack.
I end with what ew-younerd originally pointed out to me once: that the Rookie 9 seem to have been born during a baby-boom right after the Third Great Shinobi War. This would explain the "coincidence" of so many major clans present in the same class.
- all InoShikaChou parents had children of the same age.
- all 4 noble clans (Uchiha, Hyuuga, Aburame and Akimichi) happen to have children in the class this year as well, even though the parents are not of the same age. We don't know if Shino and Chouji are heirs to their respective clans, but Sasuke is son to the leader of the Uchiha clan, and Hinata was supposed to be heiress.
This "coincidence" makes sense if you consider that they were all born during a baby boom shortly after the war. Of course, it might just be that: a coincidence. But hey, if there's actually an explanation, you might as well use it!
IV.3. Others: the Konoha Police Force. Sakumo
Konoha Police Force
The databook 2 has a section on the Uchiha clan.
It states this in particular:
From the dawning of Konoha they took charge of the village's public order
This coincides with assumptions I've had before Sho pointed me to this translation. Thanks Sho! ^^ Basically, the Konoha Police was nearly there from the start.
Fugaku was born 45 years ago, or 16 years after the foundation of Konoha. Assuming that there is an about 25 years difference between each generation, we'd end up with the following:
This means the founders of the Konoha Police are of the generation of Sasuke and Itachi's great-grandparents. This fits with how they describe it: if it were just a case of "Grandfather made that," they'd likely refer to the founder as "grandfather" and not "ancestors."
Hatake Sakumo
Most fathers seem to have their children when they are 25 ~ 30. Assuming that this is the case for Sakumo, then if he had survived, Sakumo would be in the 52 ~ 57 age range. He'd be a few years older than the Legendary Sannin. This would explain why he was compared to them in terms of fame. He'd likely have been most active during the Second Great Shinobi Wars as well. By the time he died, Kakashi was 7, so he was likely about 32 ~ 37.
And this concludes this part on Konoha.
V. Other villages
We don't have much information on other villages, just random bits we got from the fights the main cast has been in. Thanks to Zabuza and Haku, then Sasori though, we do have a few things on Mist and Suna.
V.1. Mist, a country of civil wars: Zabuza, Haku, Kimimaro
Zabuza:
- age 26 in databook 1 (would be 27 in databook 2)
- graduated at age 9, probably the day when he killed all the other students in his class.
Haku:
- 15 in databook 1 (would be 16 in databook 2)
- he looked young when he left Mist with Zabuza. Perhaps he was no older than 8.
Kisame:
- age 29 in databook 2
- graduated at age 10
- is stated as the first of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist to leave, meaning he left before Zabuza did.
Kimimaro:
- age 15 in databook 2
- he also looked young when Orochimaru found him.
In my Orochimaru timeline, I assumed that Orochimaru came across Kimimaro just one year after leaving Akatsuki based on how short he was. Interestingly enough, the fillers had Haku and Zabuza coming across Orochimaru and Kimimaro while they were leaving: this is actually quite possible (and no, I didn't make my estimations to suit that scenario. I only noticed afterwards). Then again, these are "fillers" that occured when the anime was still following the manga, not the complete character rape invention that we've had since, so it wouldn't be surprising if Kishimoto gave them the dates.
Also, Zabuza's graduation occured during the Third Great Shinobi Wars (assuming that they were at war too around that time). Given such a consideration, it might be hard to deduce how "barbaric" (so to say) the Mist village is overall: their extreme graduation procedures would be less surprising during a time of war, and they've changed since after all.
However, it does shows that the Mist bloodline massacres and civil wars are still present in recent times. Kimimaro's clan was extermination perhaps just 6 years before the end of part 1, and Zabuza attempted a coup d'etat around that time as well. We don't have much information on when Kisame committed Daimyo assassination, but he'd be just 16 when the Kyuubi attacked. So all in all, we're talking about relatively recent events.
Here's the chart:
V.2. Suna, Sasori, and the death of Sandaime Kazekage
Note: from now on, the origin of the timelines will be placed in part 2, to account for all those "[insert number] years ago" comments given during this arc. If you have trouble, well there's always the date conversion chart. This also means that when I see "[x] years ago," I mean compared to the beginning of part 2. Not the end of part 1!
Also, some of those 0.5 year differences (due to the 2.5 years thing) give me headaches, so I'm simply rounding them, hear? The years were approximations in the first place. A difference of a few months on the graph won't kill anybody. Seriously!
We have the following time indications:
- According to Kankurou, Sasori left over 20 years ago, meaning 20 to 29 years ago.
- According to Chiyo, Sandaime disappeared "over 10 years ago", meaning 10 to 19 years ago.
- Gaara's father was already Kazekage when Gaara was born (since Gaara was created as "the son of Kazekage")
Also, the Wind country likely didn't start sending clients to Konoha until after the Third Great Shinobi Wars against Iwa, which likely ended just a year before the Kyuubi attacks. Konoha was suffering from lack of manpower during that war, so it wouldn't exactly be happy with the extra load.
Overall, I place Sandaime Kazekage's disappearance within 16~19 years ago.
The Suna Council Members also said this:
At the time, there arose much speculations concerning its whereabouts... from that war developed and the countries fell into disarray."
I don't believe this war to be the Third Great Shinobi War though, because of the following:
- the Great Shinobi Wars involved all 5 countries, with both external and internal problems. Suna's sole problems wouldn't account for the internal mess in other countries.
- by the time of Kakashi Gaiden which I estimate at over 17 years ago, the wars were already considered "prolonged" in Konoha. The 1.5 years between "17.5 years ago (Kakashi Gaiden)" and "19 years ago" is not exactly my idea of long...
- Suna borders fewer countries, so it might simply have messed up late. Suna and Konoha were on good enough terms to sign an alliance before Gaara was born, so the only major shinobi country near Suna would be Iwa.
- Japanese can also be vague with plurial, so although I haven't checked, the sentence might have said "the country" or just "countries" fell into disarray, not all 5 major shinobi countries who had already been waring by then.
Suna could have experienced the worst part of the Third Great Shinobi Wars later than Konoha because of geography or other factors. Either that, or the war evoked here was simply not a great war, but internal strife.
After that, things get confusing. Suna and Konoha could have signed an alliance before, during or after the Third Great shinobi wars. Sandaime Kazekage could have died during any of those times, as long as it was before the year Gaara was born. I'll leave you to speculate. I'll simply assume that Sandaime Kazekage died about 16~19 years ago.
Now here are some pretty big assumptions for this timeline:
- based on how young he looked in flashbacks, and assuming a few years could also have passed between the time his parents died and the time he made them into puppets, I'd say Sasori was no older than 8 when his parents died.
- Chiyo said that he "hasn't aged a day" since the day he left, so I'm assuming Sasori left Suna at about age 16.
Why just 16? Because he sure looked short. Either his parens were giants and he didn't inherit their genes somehow, or he simply hadn't finished growing by the time he left. While it seems young, "all" he did back then was leave. Itachi had outright killed his clan when he was 13. This also explains why 17 years-old Kankurou could improve upon Sasori's past puppet designs: because Sasori made those puppets when he was still young, so hadn't tinkered more with them by then.
It seems like a young age to be gaining fame, but then again, "Shisui of the mirage" was probably not that much older than 11 years-old Itachi when Itachi killed him, and Itachi was quite well-known within the Konoha as well back when he was still there. Sasori was known as the "Puppet army's genius model creator." He could have been a young prodigy.
Overall, we get this big-ol chart of possibilities:
Side note:
Kabuto met Sasori "5 years ago." This places the time at when the Naruto cast was 10, and when the Sound village was probably already created. Interpret that as you will.
I know.
Many (though not all) of these timelines are theories or estimates based on a number of factors such as character age, relative manga events, cited periods of war and even theories on the context back then. Some should be accurate within a few years, others could be way off. Part of the people both this timeline and the resulting history essay target are actually fanfic writers: we want You, to write good gen fics that make use of historical elements. =D Well, I'd like that anyway. There aren't enough of those.
Some people might argue that Kishimoto could have not thought up the dates of his timeline properly. I tend to believe that he does have a rough timeline at hand, because it's actually pretty easy to invent one on his own. There might be mix-ups on the dates and details, but an overall sequence of events is pretty easy to invent.
0. Foreword
I. General character information
I.1. Birth year chart
I.2. Chuunin exams age chart
I.3. General character Academy and Chuunin exams graduation chart
II. Recent events
II.1. Uchiha Massacre timeline
II.2. Kakashi Gaiden timeline
III. Legendary Sannin timeline estimates
III.1. Orochimaru timelines: departure from Konoha, Akatsuki and Sound
III.2. Tsunade timelines: death of Nawaki and Dan, departure from Konoha
III.3. Jiraiya, Yondaime, and wrap-up
IV. Estimation of Konoha history
IV.1. The Foundation of Konoha: Shodai, Nidaime, Sandaime
IV.2. The Great Wars and times of Peace
IV.3. Others: the Konoha Police Force. Sakumo
V. Other villages
V.1. Zabuza and the Mist graduation exams
V.2. Suna, Sasori, and the death of Sandaime Kazekage
0. Foreword
Databook 1: The databook 1 lists information about the various cast in the first half of part 1, up till the Naruto vs Gaara fight. It takes place when the Konoha cast is 12.
Databook 2: The databook 2 lists information about the rest of the events until the end of part 1. It takes place when the Konoha cast is 13.
Hero Book: A mini-databook of sorts, that was included in one of the issues of Shounen Jump in early part 2. It was before team 8 and team 10 (save Shikamaru) even showed back up, and doesn't give a lot of new information either.
A number of the databook 2 entries have already been translated. I have a databook translation compile if you need to find more information.
For most of the timelines, I will be placing dates as compared to the end of part 1. The 0.5 in the "2.5 years after the timeskip" is simply too troublesome for me to deal with. So when I say "10 years ago," it means "10 years before the end of part 1." Depending on the contents of the timelines, I might also use other timeline origins. If you get confused, here:
Much thanks to the translators who have translated big parts of databook 2, and big thanks in particular to Sho was very kind to help me with a number of untranslated passages, thereby giving me a better view of what could have happened back then. Thank you so much! =D
Warning: there might be some mistakes, as it's sometimes hard to read those blothes in there. If you find any mistakes, do inform me!
I. General character information
I.1. Birth year chart
Unlike the Great Naruto Timeline by Enrique Suave, I did not attempt to give the exact days of events. Enrique Suave had observed that there are some inconsistencies between birth years and graduation years based on listed ages, so it's likely that Kishimoto himself is only giving approximations.
My chart simply lists the characters by age at the end of Part I, meaning as listed in databook 2, 13 years after the Kyuubi attack. For the characters that are listed in Databook 1 and not Databook 2, I have simply added a year to their age. The purpose is not to get a detailed listing of events, but rather a general view on tendencies and demographics that I needed for the study of other timelimes.
And yes, I know that the sample of people used is too small to get an accurate view of demographics. On the other hand, you could view things this way: what are the odds of meeting only 28 years-old jounin when most of the jounin are say... 34? Get the idea? I've already said that some of the timelines are highly theoritical, and I might as well start somewhere.
At the end of the character section of each databook, there is also a list of minor characters. I have included the listed shinobi, but not:
- characters that were only present in flashbacks of undetermined dates (since I have no idea how old they'd be Now)
- civilians, as their birth tendencies are less likely to be affected by factors such as war.
I.2. Chuunin exams age chart
The afore-mentioned minor character section of the databook 1 also includes a number of the genins from various villages that participated in the Chuunin exams.
They don't represent All of the genins during the exams, but Kishimoto probably didn't go out of his way to only show the Oldest participants, so they should represent a good "normal" average.
Observations:
We know that it's been years since Rookies have participated during the exams, and these figures seem to go even further: if you don't count the core, supposedly "talented" cast, the average age of all the other participants is actually 18.8 (not counting "Norman" either). We also see that Suna might not have been joking about their increased individual training: the two other Suna shinobi genin listed were 16, actually younger than the majority of 18+ Konoha participants. Mostly though, this chart shows the talent of the "core" team:
- Temari, Kankurou and Gaara were 15, 14 and 12 respectively, younger than the majority of the cast. According to Kankurou, Temari might already have become chuunin if she had taken the exams earlier.
- the Sound 3 weren't too bad considering that they were "just" 14.
- Neji and Lee were considered among the strongest Konoha genin even though they were only 13. Tenten seemed confident as well. Gai must be quite the teacher! =D
- then we have the Rookie 9. Just for getting past the first two tests on first try, even when competing against 19 years-olds, I'd say All of them are well above-average.
So to those who feel like it: take this to anybody who bashes any of them. They're All very talented for their age, even those who don't seem so (but that's only because they're being compared to characters who are More exceptionally talented, main characters, bloodline-wielders and bijuu containers oblige).
Notice the 38 years-old by the way. He's the one some of the rest of us refer to jokingly as Norman. =D He's lived through two shinobi wars. o_o
I have other observations on all this, such as how the academy graduation date seems to have been prolonged from 10 to 12 recently, but that will be addressed in more detail in my essay on Konoha History, not here.
I.3. General character Academy and Chuunin exams graduation chart
You've noticed the red part: that period corresponds more or less with the period I believe to be the Third Great Shinobi War. I just added that to remind people that the context was very different.
I.4. Registration number chart
The shinobi registration number is assigned when the shinobi graduates from the academy. Apparently, it doesn't matter whether they pass the genin test or not. The Rookie 9 have numbers range from 12601 to 12625, so unless the difference is accounted for by other classes we haven't heard of, then the rest of the numbers must have been assigned to other students in their class.
Don't ask me what happens to students after they fail the genin exams. It's said that they're "sent back to the Academy." What happens afterwards is unclear (wouldn't the Naruto cast have noticed if so many students stayed back? In fact, wouldn't Iruka have maintained two thirds of his old class instead of taking up Konohamaru's class? Unless those students got sent to another class, or many simply quit the academy).
Personally I think that graduating from the academy and becoming genin are two separate things. It's like how you can graduate from high-school, but don't necessarily get to enter university. It contradicts the "sent back to the Academy" statement, but it's what would make sense. You could perhaps graduate (and get your number), but you have to prove yourself to the jounins before they take you on as student genin. In the meantime, you could either stay in the academy, train by yourself to take the genin tests again another time, or quit altogether. At least, this is my theory.
Another question is how Naruto failed the graduation test 3 times and still managed to graduate at the same time as others. Don't ask me either, I also don't know. The theories that I've come across are:
- he failed practice tests
- he entered the Academy early because he's an orphan, but failed the tests when time came (problem: flashbacks seem to place him in the same class as others from the Rookie 9 for longer than 1 year)
- he re-took the test several times right after failing, and failed all these re-takes
All in all, don't ask me. It might just be one of Kishimoto's goof-ups. Kabuto was in the same situation: he failed 3 times, but still managed to graduate at what seemed to be the usual age of 10 back then.
The registration numbers also seem eratic at times. Personally I think those in charge have assigned relatively telling numbers to the younger cast, then gave random ones to the older ones based approximately on their age, because otherwise, some of the jumps in there don't make sense...
II. Recent events
II.1. Uchiha Massacre timeline
I've already made a separate post on this. Back then, this was supposed to be the only spin-off... Ah well, I'm sticking this into this post as well so that all the timelines will be gathered together. If anybody has linked to that post: please replace the link, as I'm deleting that post to replace with this one.
Notes on the Mangekyou moments:
Day 1: Sasuke receives his first semester card. That evening, he overhears his father and Itachi talk about the elusive Uchiha meeting and secret mission.
Day 2: The mission and the meeting occur. Shisui dies.
Day 3: While Sasuke talks to Itachi, they are confronted by the Uchiha Police.
The reason there doesn't seem to be a timeskip between the events is the following:
- we see Sasuke getting his first semester report card. We see the same report card a few pages later, when Sasuke is talking to Itachi, right before the Konoha police shows up.
- the Konoha police mentions the same meeting Sasuke heard of that night.
- the Konoha police mentions the fact that Itachi has been Anbu for 6 months as well.
It is afterwards that a timeskip occurs. The Katon training occurs some time during this timeskip, though the exact date is hard to determine. Sasuke was between 6 and 8.
II.2. Kakashi Gaiden timeline
Databook information: (Academy Graduation / Chuunin Promotion)
- Kakashi: 5 / 8. He was 27 at the end of part 1, which means he was 14 when the Kyuubi attacked.
- Obito: 9 / 11. He died during the Gaiden at age 13.
- Rin: 9 / 11.
We don't know Rin's age or age of death, probably because the databook must either list her current age (irrelevent because she'd dead) or her age of death (which Kishimoto might have not decided to reveal). I personally believe that she should be around the same age as Obito.
From now on I will assume that Rin is the same age as Obito to simplify matters. At most there is a 1-year margin of error.
We know the following from the manga:
- At the beginning of Kakashi Gaiden, the expression "About 10 years ago" was also used, though it was actually a semi-mistranslation. The actual expression was closer to "over 10 years ago." What's more, we know they took place before Yondaime lost his life during the Kyuubi attack, 13 years ago (so... over 10 years ago...).
- Yondaime says that Kakashi's father, Sakumo, died "5 years ago."
- back then, Yondaime was still a Jounin.
Now for Kakashi's age:
Possibility #1: Simultaneous graduation from the Academy, then placement onto the same genin team.
This would make Kakashi 4 years younger than Obito and make him 9 years-old when Obito died.
Problem: this is the drawn difference between 2 kids with a 4 years difference (8 years-old Konohamaru and 12 years-old Naruto):
As you can see, Kakashi looks nowhere as much younger as Obito. This is why I usually go with possibility #2.
Possibility #2: Kakashi was about 12. The events took place 15 years ago.
Based on height comparisons: Kakashi seems just a bit younger than Obito: around 12, give or take a year.
This would also mean that Kakashi and Obito did not graduate at the same time.
Because of the war, team recomposition would not have been surprising. So:
- either Kakashi ended on Obito's team one day, perhaps after his team or Obito's got broken up
- or on the contrary, Kakashi started out as Yondaime's solo apprentice (like Anko seemed to be with Orochimaru), but for whatever reasons, Yondaime may have decided to take on two extra subordinates later on. If Kakashi was 12, then his father would have died when he was 7, when he was already genin. Yondaime might have taken on an entire team for Kakashi, to prevent him from isolating himself.
I personally believe in the second explanation because Yondaime seemed to know Kakashi well, and could explain what Kakashi must have felt when he lost his father 5 years ago. If Yondaime were already Kakashi's teacher, then obviously, he'd know him that well. Anyway, the chart:.
Third Great Shinobi War deductions
We know that Third Great Shinobi Wars ended between the times of the Kakashi Gaiden and the Kyuubi attack.
For convenience sake, I usually just place the end of the war around 1 year before the Kyuubi attack. The time for the beginning of the war is unclear, though I personally theorize that it began over 5 years ago, when Sakumo killed himself after a failed crucial mission. I will address this in more detail in part IV.3. so that you'd get a more global view of the wars.
Yondaime Hokage deductions
Yondaime could have become Hokage right after the Second shinobi war, perhaps after proving his valor during then. Kyuubi attacked shortly after this.
This is also probably why Sandaime retains the title of "Greatest Hokage in History." In the worst case scenarios, Yondaime may have been Hokage for just weeks or even days before he died, so he didn't exactly have time to be the greatest any kage. XD
When did Rin die? There's absolutely no way of knowing. Maybe Rin died during the Kyuubi attack, which would explain why Kakashi didn't show an earlier interest and respect to his teacher's legacy, Naruto (there's no real explanation given, reallly).
III. Legendary Sannin timeline estimates
- All of the Legendary Sannin were born 51 years ago from the end of part 1
- They graduated at age 6, meaning 45 years ago.
- The Kyuubi attacked when they were 38.
III.1. Orochimaru timelines: departure from the Konoha, Akatsuki and Sound
Orochimaru's departure
Anko's profile:
- she was 24 by databook 1, meaning she was 12 when the Kyuubi attack occured.
- She graduated the Academy at age 10, probably becoming Orochimaru's student. She graduated at age 12, the year of the Kyuubi attack.
Orochimaru stated in his fight against Sandaime that he left "over ten years ago." He probably left After Yondaime was at least designated as successor, because during the flashback in that fight, Sandaime explains that one of the reasons he didn't chose Orochimaru as Yondaime because of his twisted ideologies:
- there were other reasons. There wouldn't need to be if Orochimaru had simply become a missing-nin.
- if Orochimaru's experiments were discovered Before, there'd be no choosing. You don't "choose" a fugitive.
See? Sandaime likely knew that something was wrong with Orochimaru (he suspected something since Orochimaru was very young), but hadn't discovered the experiments yet. That coupled with the valor Yondaime displayed during the war may have pushed Sandaime to name Yondaime as next Hokage instead. As for when the experiments started:
- if the experiments started before, then Sandaime might have chosen Yondaime for successor instead out of suspicion for Orochimaru's activities.
- if, on the contrary, they started after, then it might be partly out of spite for Yondaime being designated as successor.
Both are equally valid, and offer an equal amount of possibilities.
In the meantime, I think that Orochimaru left when Yondaime was still alive. Otherwise, Sandaime would have spoke of the Godaime rank instead. At worst, it was shortly after.
Another detail is that Jiraiya had never seen the seal Yondaime had left on Naruto before. If he were already off chasing Orochimaru, it'd explain why he didn't show a bigger interest in his student's legady. After that, Jiraiya remained solely pre-occupied by Orochimaru.
Neither Orochimaru nor Jiraiya seemed present at the Kyuubi attack, in any case (Sandaime had the excuse of being old. The Legendary Sannin were 38, which would still place them at an age to fight). Kyuubi might have attacked when both were away.
How did Anko learn Orochimaru's techniques so quickly? She might not have mastered them yet, instead perfected them after he's left. Also notice that she graduated at around the time the war ended. Orochimaru might have been pressured to take on an apprentice because the war was finally over.
Akatsuki
We don't know when Orochimaru joined Akatsuki. All we know is that Sasori was his partner.
The biggest question is how long Akatsuki was around in the first place. Kisame for example was merely 29 by databook 2, which means he was merely 16 when Orochimaru left Konoha and the Kyuubi attacked. Then again, Itachi killed his clan at age 13, and Akatsuki members can change members, so we don't know if this is indicative. Orochimaru may have joined right after he left the village, or joined a few years later if Akatsuki was only created later on.
Orochimaru then left Akatsuki 7 years ago" from the end of part 1. He actually stated that he left because of Itachi. Interestingly enough, the departure is indeed right at the year when Itachi became Anbu then gained the Mangekyou.
Disclaimer: I am note making any speculations as to the exact circumstances of Orochimaru's departure (and honestly, I don't really care). There are lots of possibilities. I'm just doing the timeline. =\
Sound
Orochimaru founded the village of Sound some time after he left the organization. He probably gathered the various shinobi after wandering around some time.
Sound shinobi and mission logs:
- the Sound 3 were 14 during the Chuunin exams. Had they survived, they'd be 15 by now. D 23, C 12.
- the Sound 4 were 14 according to databook 2. Rather young eh? Could be Orochimaru's experiments. D 22, C 15, B 8, A 2, S 1.
- Kimimaro was actually 15. He sure looked older. B 15, A 5, S 2.
Comparison:
- Rookie 9: 8 missions total in databook 1. About 12 in databook 2.
- Tenten from the previous year had D 24, C 13 by the end of databook 2. By then she had been a genin for about 2 years.
Assuming that the Sound genin didn't get a lot more missions than the Konoha genin (it's not like missions were a priority to Orochimaru):
- the Sound 3 probably started taking missions at age 12, at year 10 A.K., before taking the chuunin exams at age 14.
- the Sound 4, because of the B-rank missions, might or might not have taken missions for a year longer. They'd have thus started at either age 11 or 12, at years 10 ~ 11 A.K.
- it's much harder to tell for Kimimaro, because Kimimaro became sick. Orochimaru seems to have come across him when he was still very young. If Kimimaro was 7 or 8, this would have placed their encounter within a year of Orochimaru's departure from Akatsuki.
All this means that the Sound village existed at least 2 years since before the chuunin exams. It could have been around a bit longer if Orochimaru needed time to enhance the infrastructure.
Orochimaru has likely gathered many before the foundation of the Sound however, such as for Kimimaro and Zaku. These particular Sound shinobi seem to consider themselves as having a personal relation with Orochimaru, probably because Orochimaru approached them on a one-on-one basis.
This is not necessarily the case of the other Sound shinobi shown: they could have been traitors to other villages, or shinobi from the country where Orochimaru settled down, "pawns" that Orochimaru didn't even bother lying to (lying to about 10 on a one-on-one basis is still okay, it gets silly after a few hundred). Besides, those others weren't entrusted with anything in particular besides fighting).
After finding a number of "pawns," Orochimaru would have started training and experimenting with them. Setting up the village itself might otherwise not have been as complicated as one might think, since it was stated that any country would want him. By the time the Sound village was set up, the Sound 3 and Sound 5 could have been ready to start taking missions, which would place the foundation of Sound at the afore-mentioned 3 years before the end of part 1, when the main Konoha cast was 10.
III.2. Tsunade timelines: death of Nawaki and Dan, departure from the Konoha
Nawaki and Dan's deaths
The exact dates of Nawaki and Dan's deaths are among the biggest headaches I've had, because Tsunade doesn't look the same age in any of the panels, argh:
- here Tsunade seems to be the same age around Nawaki and Dan.
- here she seems much younger around Nawaki, then much older when she met Dan, except she looks yet younger again around Dan a few pages later.
- and while her change of hairstyle may have suggested much time going past, this frame shows that she was using both hairstyles when Nawaki was alive.
Wtf? This page seems to suggest that Dan died the day after Tsunade met him, but there must have been a timeskip in-between because this shows them spending time together. Up to several years might have passed: Tsunade would have had time to know Dan very well, and had time to earn her fame as medic (she must have studied medics extra hard after Nawaki's death).
In the meantime, I tend to believe that not That much time must have passed between the moment Nawaki died and the moment Tsunade met Dan (to hell with uneven art), and that they died during the same war (the Second Shinobi Wars, according to a profile of one of the minor characters -bottom of page 169-). The reasons are the following:
- Orochimaru specifically stated that Nawaki died because there were no medics on the battlefield.
- Tsunade met Dan when she was arguing for the benefit of including more medics on the battlefield. She likely wouldn't wait too long after Nawaki's death before suggesting such an idea. At most she had been arguing for some time.
- Sandaime then specifically said that they couldn't do so because they were in the middle of a war and lacked resources. If there was a period of peace in between, then Tsunade could have used this opportunity to push the advance of medics without facing resource problems.
I did attempt to look into the shinobi registration numbers by the way. It didn't really help:
- unless Nawaki graduated at an older age than Mikoto did (unlikely?), then he should be at least as young as her when he graduated. Mikoto would be 40 today if she had survived. This means there'd be a 10 years age difference between Tsunade and Nawaki. Tsunade didn't look That much taller, and Jiraiya didn't even seem to have finished growing, so it's likely a case of bad numbering. :S
- Dan's graduation number means he graduated after Tsunade, at age 10. This means Tsunade could be at most 4 years younger than him, so at least 23 when Dan died. His registration number would suggest more years that that, but as I've said already said, the increase in registration numbers seem to be random at times.
I personally place Tsunade at about 17 when Nawaki died at age 12, simply because Kishimoto has so far had two other cases of siblings with a 5 years difference in age: Kiba and Hana, Sasuke and Itachi. It fits just about everything else too. *shrugs*
As for Dan, I personally think she was about 22~23 when Dan died, and that his death was near the end of the war. Irony aside, this is because the shock of his death must have left Tsunade at least momentarily unable to accomplish her duties. Yet Jiraiya said "She was the one that brought us victory in the battle." It wouldn't have been the case if she spent most of the war cowering.
And if the war did end when she was in her early 20's, it becomes less surprising for her to say that Kabuto surpasses her prime in certain areas. It'd be basically 20 years-old Kabuto vs 23 years-old Tsunade when she was best during the Second Great War and still not boggled down by her blood phobia.
The reason for the 22~23 timeframe is also that it'd place the resulting peace could account for an apparent baby-boom (something that as ew-younerd once noted, is normal after a war) where all the jounin were born (see birth chart). Even though it's a small sample, as I've already said, what are the odds?
This would explain why most of the "Konoha Elite" we see all seem to belong to the same age group. =.= Anybody else ever wondered why we don't see many many jounin slightly older and perhaps more powerful and experienced than the ones we've seen (save the semi-retired parents)? Ones that wouldn't get owned so easily by the Akatsuki despite being considered among Konoha's best? Wtf?
In particular, we've recently learned that Asuma is Sandaime's son. He'd would have been born when Sandaime is 41! However, it'd make some sense if war had prevented Sandaime from having another child earlier.
Is 23 a bit young for Tsunade to have achieved fame already? I kind of doubt it:
- one of Tsunade's achievements is finding a counter to Chiyo's poison, for example. Now Sakura countered Sasori's poison in just one day by age 15. She'd be famous by now if she showed up during a war where the poison had already done damage. =\
- Naruto there is going to have a mega S-class jutsu surpassing Yondaime's at age 15 as well. =\
When you're pressed, and when you have a good teacher, you achieve great things at a young age. The Legendary Sannin had been trained by Sandaime since they were 6...
Tsunade has likely then recovered to a point that she can still perform medics, as long as there isn't too much blood around:
- Orochimaru knew she could heal his hands
- Jiraiya thought her capable of handling the Hokage role
- when Naruto and Jiraiya found her, she was still acting loud and well... loud.
So some time after the war, she must have seemed okay at least on the surface. But given the shock she faced right after Dan's death, she probably needed some time.
Tsunade's departure
Possibility #1: She left right after the war.
If she retired or left after the war, then Shizune's profile suggests that she returned to the village some time around the time of the Kyuubi massacre, and took Shizune as apprentice then. However, she knew Yondaime after he created "that impossible jutsu" (the Rasengan), which could mean she stayed for some time after the war, assuming that Yondaime didn't create it when he was very young. Then again, Yondaime just Might have created Rasengan when he was very young.
Possibility #2: She left afterwards
If she left at the same time as Shizune, it'd be quite a while later. It is quite possible that despite the shock, she remained in the village, slightly broken, either retired or still attempting to do her job. Orochimaru and Jiraiya still deemed her fit to heal much later on, so it's not like she was suddenly incapable of being a medic.
Shizune's profile:
Shizune: age 28 (same birth year as Obito?).
Graduated: 9 (19 years ago, when Tsunade was 34).
Chuunin: 13 (15 years ago, when Tsunade was 38).
Mission log: D 74, C 44, B 18, A 3 (the A-rank missions might be due to after her return to Konoha)
By comparison, Obito had D 86, C 24, B 24 and A 1. He graduated from the Academy at age 9, became a chuunin at age 11 and died at age 13.
Personal interpretation: Shizune had more C-rank missions because she's been a genin longer than Obito. However, Obito had more B-rank missions. It could either be due to his teacher, to the fact that he was a chuunin during the war whereas Shizune graduated near the end of the war, or due to Shizune being a chuunin for less long than Obito.
She could have left with Tsunade less than 2 years after becoming chuunin. So Tsunade left either:
- shortly after the war (perhaps the war brought back painful memories of loss, or perhaps the sight of blood finally made her decide to "retire" again).
- shortly after Orochimaru and Jiraiya left (something that could have made her extra bitter)
- or even shortly after the Kyuubi attack. Orochimaru had left, Jiraiya had gone to chase him, and Yondaime was alone in fighting Kyuubi. His death would no doubt have brought back bitter memories. It could have been the final straw.
Jiraiya then comments that she's changed a lot. He likely knew what kind of person she was right after the Second Shinobi War, so something might have changed her even more. She attributes this cynicism to age, but it could also be due to her observing the Third Shinobi War, then Yondaime's death.
III.3. Jiraiya, Yondaime, and wrap-up
Yondaime
We don't know anything on Yondaime's age. We only know that he graduated the academy at age 10, for what it's worth.
At first I made a possibly irrelevant comparison: Yondaime Kazekage was 40 when he died. During the time of the Kyuubi attack, that would have put his age at 27. For Yondaime Hokage, I think that'd be just about right: he was probably in his mid or later twenties at the time of his death.
I then found a more interesting reasoning: simply taking the date Jiraiya graduated from the academy (probably to be trained by Sandaime), the date Kakashi graduated (probably to be trained by Yondaime), take the middle year, add a few years to account for the fact that Yondaime graduated at age 10 and not at ages 5 or 6 like Kakashi and Jiraiya did, and voila! I got this:
Wrap-up
The wrap-up is the loose ends. Jiraiya must have left when Orochimaru did. The strange thing in the meantime is the mission logs.
Jiraiya: D58 C345 B884 A614 S138
Orochimaru: D18 C332 B521 A491 S108
Tsunade: D40 C236 B467 A418 S95
The increased number of missions seems to suggest that Jiraiya was either taking more missions (more enthusiasm perhaps?), or has been active for longer.
In the case of the second explanation, I see two possibilities:
- after the Second Great War, Tsunade might have not have participated in missions during the Third Great War because of her condition, though she might have helped at the hospital or researched medics. Alternatively, she could have retired or left completely. Orochimaru is harder to account for: perhaps during the war, he was focused on research instead of participating in the missions.
- alternatively, Jiraiya might actually not have completely cut ties with Konoha after both Orochimaru and Tsunade left. After chasing around for Orochimaru, he might have returned to the Konoha and accepted a number of missions, as long as they don't detract him from his other goals. This would explain why the Council chose him as the next Hokage: because he wasn't as "nowhere to be found" as Tsunade.
Or the numbers could just be completely random. *shrugs* I'm just suggesting possible explanations. Also notice the relatively low level of D-rank missions by the way (fewer than Obito's 86 when he died!), even though they shouldn't have been able to take on very advanced missions at age 6 and the likes. This might be very well due to the pressures of war, or just due to the fact that early in the existence of Konoha, few people would think of asking them to find cats (who knows?).
Dan (D72 C84 B226 A168 S22) didn't have many D-rank missions either. He didn't seem to have many missions compared to the Legendary Sannin by the way, even considering that he died earlier (since the Legendary Sannin did eventually leave), but then again he isn't one of the Legendary Sannin who graduated at age 6. It might seem to point that Tsunade was still active after the Second Shinobi War. If you are a fanfic writer, you can disregard these numbers completely. Kishimoto might never explain anyway. =\
So there you go. The Legendary Sannin.
IV. Estimation of Konoha history
IV.1. The Foundation of the Konoha: Shodai, Nidaime, Sandaime
Much thanks to Sho for providing the translations of Shodai, Nidaime and Sandaime's databook 1 profiles! =D
Shodai Hokage
Quote: "Conflict is a part of this world..."
Bolded text: The Great Founder of the "Village of Konohagakure"
Dating back to approximately 60 years from now.... The one shinobi who held an outstanding power. He set out to establish a new village by gathering a great number of shinobi to the forest lands. The man who did that was Shodai Hokage, the founder of Konoha. Despite that however, conflict was part of the world at the time. He lost his life within the village during that period.
Nidaime Hokage
Quote: "It's been a long time, Saru..."
After Shodai died, with his dying wish he named Nidaime, who was his younger brother, to be "Hokage". It was due to his efforts that the Ninja Academy was established. However it was just soon thereafter that a great war happened within the shinobi world. He entrusted both the repression of the wars and well-wishes for the flourishing of the village unto the people who worked below him.
Sandaime Hokage
Quote: "No matter what life you live, don't ever forget to protect those important to you!"
Bolded text: The "Professor" revered as the strongest out of all Hokages.
Active since the founding of the village, the man who came to see all of Konoha's progress--from the conflicts to the peace-- is Sandaime Hokage. If there is anyone who is suited to be labeled as the symbol of the village of Konohagakure, then it is him.
etc.
Konoha was thus founded "around 60 years ago" according to databook 1. The Legendary Sannin were born about 10 years later.
Shodai was Tsunade's grandfather, so from this alone we know that he wasn't young. Most of the fathers seem to have had their children when they were about 25: the InoShikaChou parents had their children at that age, Shibi had Shino at age 26, Fugaku had Itachi at age 27. To simplify, we could assume that Tsunade was born when Shodai was around 50, give or take 10 years (lol @ interval).
This means he founded Konoha when he was about 40. This seems like a very good age estimate to me: he was old enough to command respect among elder clan leaders, and "young" enough to... well... move around. According to his databook profiles though, he lost his life during the turmoils at the beginning of Konoha. His brother Nidaime took on the position instead.
We know that Nidaime created the Konoha Academy after becoming Hokage, as well as made other structural adjustments. The academy was thus around at least when the Legendary Sannin graduated from it at age 6. This also means that Shodai died before Konoha was 16 years old. Nidaime's profile then cites that "a great war" erupted soon after the foundation of the Academy. This leads us to Sandaime's reign.
This scene seems to suggest that Sandaime became Hokage very young, but other information seems to suggest that this was either a dream sequence, or that a time skip has occured between each scene:
- Shodai was dead by the time Nidaime became Hokage, nevermind Sandaime
- the databook profile of the Legendary Sannin states "the man that would later become the Third Hokage." This means Sandaime became Hokage After he took on the Legendary Sannin graduated from the Academy.
- this is further supported from a chronological sequence in the manga: 1, 2, 3. All the other scenes are in chronological order, so Sandaime's nomination to Hokage seems to be in that order as well.
- this scene however suggests that he became Sandaime when the Legendary Sannin were still young: he already had his face carved into the Hokage mountain.
Sandaime was born 69 years ago. He'd be about 8 by the time the Konoha was created, 18 by the time the Legendary Sannin are born and 24 by the time they graduate at age 6. In the flashback, the Legendary Sannin still looked very young, perhaps no older than 10. Sandaime would have been 24 at youngest, 28 at oldest.
Back to Nidaime though: Nidaime was Shodai's younger brother. We don't know by how many years, but I'll just say 5 years as a reasonable estimate (bah, why not, that's the age difference between Kiba and Hana, and between Itachi and Sasuke. I have to start Somewhere). If he was 35 at the time of the foundation of Konoha, he'd be 45 by the time the Legendary Sannin are born, 51 by the time they graduate, and by the time they're 10, he'd be 55. In any case, this estimate shows that he was likely in his 50's when he passed on the title to Sandaime. After this, he may have dedicated to continue protecting the Konoha, only to die as a result.
This last estimates would actually suggest the following: it is normal for a Hokage to maintain his position until he is in his 50's. This might explain why Sandaime didn't chose a successor sooner as well. He might have considered passing on his position as he was nearing his 50's, but the war would have prevented a transfer of leadership. After the war, in acknowledgement of the valor Yondaime showed during the war, while being suspect of Orochimaru as well, Sandaime may have chosen Yondaime to be the next Hokage instead of Orochimaru.
IV.2. The Great Wars and Times of Peace
The Sound and Suna attack against Konoha showed that a battle can be quite short: just one day. However, that flash attack was called "The downfall of Konoha," not a Great Shinobi war. A drawn-out war with military preparations, scattered skirmishes which gradually deplete forces with time instead of causing a severe damage just once, and no immediate surrenders like Suna did (after they've found out that Orochimaru was solely responsible), could potentially last a lot longer.
What's more, the war evoked in the Gaiden involved all 5 countries. It is quite possible that the other Great Wars were of similar scale. Overall, I'd assume that each of them lasted a number of years. You could also think of real life World Wars.
The Foundation
In the beginning, I thought that a great war should have erupted in the early days of Konoha as well. But it was stated that a great war erupted "soon after Nidaime set up the Academy," and assuming that it wasn't the one that took Nawaki and Dan's life, this would set the first great war not Quite so soon. What gives?
Then I remembered this: if Suna and the number of Kages they've had is an indication, all of the major shinobi villages were set up at around the same time. It wouldn't be a coincidence if you consider that all the villages would be taking cues from each other. This means that although battles were common, there wasn't the military infrastructure for full-out wars yet. The villages were too busy forming themselves.
First Great shinobi war and Parents generation
Nidaime's profile stated that a great war erupted not long after he founded the Academy. I theorize this to be the first Great Shinobi War.
Sandaime said in a flashback, where we see the Legendary Sannin but also Sandaime's face carved into the Hokage mountain, that it was "a time of chaos/war." This could mean that the war was still ongoing when the Legendary Sannin had already graduated, and when Sandaime became Hokage. Nidaime likely handed Sandaime his title during this war, and possibly died afterwards in this same war. If you're a fanfic writer looking for dramatics, you could assume that Nidaime handed Sandaime his title, then went on a suicide mission that would help Konoha win the war. *shrugs*
I personally theorize that this war had ended around 40~42 years ago. This is because it'd mark the time of the Parent generation. Yes, it's the baby-boom theory. Bite me, I like it, and I have to start somewhere after all. Besides, we know um... that many children were born around the time of the Rookie 9's birth, and their parents were probably born during this period? =\
Second Great Shinobi war and Jounin/Chuunin generation
As I've already said, I believe Nawaki and Dan to have died during the same war, with no peace periods in-between. Right after this war, there'd be what appears to be a baby-boom.
A question is about Shizune. She was born during this "jounin boom", and she was Dan's niece. If her mother was Dan's sister who died during the war, then it'd kill the theory that the war ended about this time. Sho however was nice enough to point out that the words she used for uncle were 叔父 ("oji"), a term used if Dan were Younger than her parent. This means her mother was indeed not Dan's younger sister. What's more, there has yet to be any indication that she knew Dan personally: she gets mad when Dan is evoked because of how it affects Tsunade, not because of how it affects herself.
So for the moment, the theory still holds.
As for when it started, I think Tsunade was and looked about 17 in flashbacks, but that's just me. The war could have started a couple of years before that (since they were "in the middle" of a war, as opposed to "a war just started").
Finally, I think Suna was at least one of Konoha's main opponents during this war. The reason is that Chiyo mentioned Tsunade. Also, Konoha's main opponents during the Third War seems to be Iwa (Stone), not Suna. The war turned to the better for Konoha as soon as it destroyed the supply path for Iwa, so other countries probably weren't as main opponents as Iwa.
Suna and Konoha actually seemed to be on good enough conditions by the times of the Third Great Shinobi Wars for the Wind country to send it all its clients as soon as they signed an alliance. I don't think they'd have done that if Konoha brought the Wind Country great damage during the war.
Third Great Shinobi war and current generation
The beginning of Kakashi Gaiden states the following:
Over 10 years ago... The Great 5 shinobi countries' governments were in turmoil, and skirmishes involving the villages took place around the borders of each country.
The prolonged wars took away the power of the Fire Country... As the country was severely lacking in military power. A great many of those killed in battle were taken to Konoha village. Afterwards, this was called "The Third Secret World War."
The end states the following:
That long period of fighting ended due to the sacrifice of many nameless shinobi.
We also have the databook 2 profile for the Battle at the Kanabi bridge. It seems to imply that Iwa was Konoha's main opponent then.
The war in its entirety must have been going on for a long time. Furthermore, we know that Sakumo died 5 years ago, while sneaking into enemy territory. The sole failure caused the Fire Country "a great loss," so although "war" wasn't specifically mentioned, I believe that the war had already begun back then. 5 years later, the Fire Country was suffering from the "prolonged wars."
I think that Sakumo died at the beginning of this war, because of the loss that Konoha incurred right after. As said, the Great Wars could have lasted a long time.
If we look at the birth chart again: Sakumo died 20 years ago. During the period from 21 years ago to 15 years ago, we've only seen an average of 1.4 characters per year. This can be compared to the period lasting from 22 to 28 years ago, where we see an average of 4.7 characters per year. That's 3 times more. Again, I know that the sample size isn't big, but what are the odds? This would explain why nearly all of the older casts seem to fit in same-ish age groups: because of more births during those years. Did any of you ever find that fishy? =\
Alternatively, we could think that Sakumo died near the end of the Second Great Shinobi Wars. But assuming that Tsunade was no older than 18 when Nawaki died, Sakumo would have died when she is 31. This means the Second Great Shinobi Wars would have lasted a whooping 13 years, while the Third Great Shinobi Wars would have lasted a mere 2 or 3 years, considering that there would have been at least a Few years of peace in-between (after all, according to the databook Kanabi profile, Konoha was "enjoying prosperity under the rule of Sandaime"). It's still possible of course, I just don't like the idea much and besides, it'd ruin all those pretty baby-boom theories. *dodges rotten tomatoes*
The rest of you can explore the other possibilities yourself, one timeline estimate is enough for me. x_x Speaking of which, here it is:
Peace
I believe that the end of the Third Shinobi War marked the beginning of an era of unprecedented peace.
- during the Kakashi Gaiden events, Konoha was facing Iwa. This means they have at least reached a stand-still after the end of the war.
- the Fire and Wind countries forged an alliance after this war as well, prompting Yondaime Kazekage to seal Shukaku into Gaara in response to the resulting military reductions.
- 3 years after the Kyuubi attack, when Hinata turned 3, a peace treaty was signed with the village of Cloud.
- Mist shinobi were present during the Chuunin exams, which would imply that Konoha at least isn't at full-out war against them.
This means that on paper at least, Konoha is now at peace with all 4 major shinobi villages. The end of the war thus ushered an era of unprecedented peace, interrupted only by the joint Suna and Sound attack.
I end with what ew-younerd originally pointed out to me once: that the Rookie 9 seem to have been born during a baby-boom right after the Third Great Shinobi War. This would explain the "coincidence" of so many major clans present in the same class.
- all InoShikaChou parents had children of the same age.
- all 4 noble clans (Uchiha, Hyuuga, Aburame and Akimichi) happen to have children in the class this year as well, even though the parents are not of the same age. We don't know if Shino and Chouji are heirs to their respective clans, but Sasuke is son to the leader of the Uchiha clan, and Hinata was supposed to be heiress.
This "coincidence" makes sense if you consider that they were all born during a baby boom shortly after the war. Of course, it might just be that: a coincidence. But hey, if there's actually an explanation, you might as well use it!
IV.3. Others: the Konoha Police Force. Sakumo
Konoha Police Force
The databook 2 has a section on the Uchiha clan.
It states this in particular:
From the dawning of Konoha they took charge of the village's public order
This coincides with assumptions I've had before Sho pointed me to this translation. Thanks Sho! ^^ Basically, the Konoha Police was nearly there from the start.
Fugaku was born 45 years ago, or 16 years after the foundation of Konoha. Assuming that there is an about 25 years difference between each generation, we'd end up with the following:
This means the founders of the Konoha Police are of the generation of Sasuke and Itachi's great-grandparents. This fits with how they describe it: if it were just a case of "Grandfather made that," they'd likely refer to the founder as "grandfather" and not "ancestors."
Hatake Sakumo
Most fathers seem to have their children when they are 25 ~ 30. Assuming that this is the case for Sakumo, then if he had survived, Sakumo would be in the 52 ~ 57 age range. He'd be a few years older than the Legendary Sannin. This would explain why he was compared to them in terms of fame. He'd likely have been most active during the Second Great Shinobi Wars as well. By the time he died, Kakashi was 7, so he was likely about 32 ~ 37.
And this concludes this part on Konoha.
V. Other villages
We don't have much information on other villages, just random bits we got from the fights the main cast has been in. Thanks to Zabuza and Haku, then Sasori though, we do have a few things on Mist and Suna.
V.1. Mist, a country of civil wars: Zabuza, Haku, Kimimaro
Zabuza:
- age 26 in databook 1 (would be 27 in databook 2)
- graduated at age 9, probably the day when he killed all the other students in his class.
Haku:
- 15 in databook 1 (would be 16 in databook 2)
- he looked young when he left Mist with Zabuza. Perhaps he was no older than 8.
Kisame:
- age 29 in databook 2
- graduated at age 10
- is stated as the first of the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist to leave, meaning he left before Zabuza did.
Kimimaro:
- age 15 in databook 2
- he also looked young when Orochimaru found him.
In my Orochimaru timeline, I assumed that Orochimaru came across Kimimaro just one year after leaving Akatsuki based on how short he was. Interestingly enough, the fillers had Haku and Zabuza coming across Orochimaru and Kimimaro while they were leaving: this is actually quite possible (and no, I didn't make my estimations to suit that scenario. I only noticed afterwards). Then again, these are "fillers" that occured when the anime was still following the manga, not the complete character rape invention that we've had since, so it wouldn't be surprising if Kishimoto gave them the dates.
Also, Zabuza's graduation occured during the Third Great Shinobi Wars (assuming that they were at war too around that time). Given such a consideration, it might be hard to deduce how "barbaric" (so to say) the Mist village is overall: their extreme graduation procedures would be less surprising during a time of war, and they've changed since after all.
However, it does shows that the Mist bloodline massacres and civil wars are still present in recent times. Kimimaro's clan was extermination perhaps just 6 years before the end of part 1, and Zabuza attempted a coup d'etat around that time as well. We don't have much information on when Kisame committed Daimyo assassination, but he'd be just 16 when the Kyuubi attacked. So all in all, we're talking about relatively recent events.
Here's the chart:
V.2. Suna, Sasori, and the death of Sandaime Kazekage
Note: from now on, the origin of the timelines will be placed in part 2, to account for all those "[insert number] years ago" comments given during this arc. If you have trouble, well there's always the date conversion chart. This also means that when I see "[x] years ago," I mean compared to the beginning of part 2. Not the end of part 1!
Also, some of those 0.5 year differences (due to the 2.5 years thing) give me headaches, so I'm simply rounding them, hear? The years were approximations in the first place. A difference of a few months on the graph won't kill anybody. Seriously!
We have the following time indications:
- According to Kankurou, Sasori left over 20 years ago, meaning 20 to 29 years ago.
- According to Chiyo, Sandaime disappeared "over 10 years ago", meaning 10 to 19 years ago.
- Gaara's father was already Kazekage when Gaara was born (since Gaara was created as "the son of Kazekage")
Also, the Wind country likely didn't start sending clients to Konoha until after the Third Great Shinobi Wars against Iwa, which likely ended just a year before the Kyuubi attacks. Konoha was suffering from lack of manpower during that war, so it wouldn't exactly be happy with the extra load.
Overall, I place Sandaime Kazekage's disappearance within 16~19 years ago.
The Suna Council Members also said this:
At the time, there arose much speculations concerning its whereabouts... from that war developed and the countries fell into disarray."
I don't believe this war to be the Third Great Shinobi War though, because of the following:
- the Great Shinobi Wars involved all 5 countries, with both external and internal problems. Suna's sole problems wouldn't account for the internal mess in other countries.
- by the time of Kakashi Gaiden which I estimate at over 17 years ago, the wars were already considered "prolonged" in Konoha. The 1.5 years between "17.5 years ago (Kakashi Gaiden)" and "19 years ago" is not exactly my idea of long...
- Suna borders fewer countries, so it might simply have messed up late. Suna and Konoha were on good enough terms to sign an alliance before Gaara was born, so the only major shinobi country near Suna would be Iwa.
- Japanese can also be vague with plurial, so although I haven't checked, the sentence might have said "the country" or just "countries" fell into disarray, not all 5 major shinobi countries who had already been waring by then.
Suna could have experienced the worst part of the Third Great Shinobi Wars later than Konoha because of geography or other factors. Either that, or the war evoked here was simply not a great war, but internal strife.
After that, things get confusing. Suna and Konoha could have signed an alliance before, during or after the Third Great shinobi wars. Sandaime Kazekage could have died during any of those times, as long as it was before the year Gaara was born. I'll leave you to speculate. I'll simply assume that Sandaime Kazekage died about 16~19 years ago.
Now here are some pretty big assumptions for this timeline:
- based on how young he looked in flashbacks, and assuming a few years could also have passed between the time his parents died and the time he made them into puppets, I'd say Sasori was no older than 8 when his parents died.
- Chiyo said that he "hasn't aged a day" since the day he left, so I'm assuming Sasori left Suna at about age 16.
Why just 16? Because he sure looked short. Either his parens were giants and he didn't inherit their genes somehow, or he simply hadn't finished growing by the time he left. While it seems young, "all" he did back then was leave. Itachi had outright killed his clan when he was 13. This also explains why 17 years-old Kankurou could improve upon Sasori's past puppet designs: because Sasori made those puppets when he was still young, so hadn't tinkered more with them by then.
It seems like a young age to be gaining fame, but then again, "Shisui of the mirage" was probably not that much older than 11 years-old Itachi when Itachi killed him, and Itachi was quite well-known within the Konoha as well back when he was still there. Sasori was known as the "Puppet army's genius model creator." He could have been a young prodigy.
Overall, we get this big-ol chart of possibilities:
Side note:
Kabuto met Sasori "5 years ago." This places the time at when the Naruto cast was 10, and when the Sound village was probably already created. Interpret that as you will.