Comments | her_own_monster: I've never seen an angel, but I'm trying to believe

her_own_monster

I've never seen an angel, but I'm trying to believe

Oct 18, 2007 17:04

Kierkegaard. Is. AMAZING.

He underscores, in Fear and Trembling, that faith isn't as easy as it seems. I never considered, in any of my experiences with Christianity, that maybe faith isn't something everyone who considers himself "Christian" has automatically (or vice versa, I guess), or just how prevalent a theme that struggle is in scripture. ( Read more... )

Comments 16

selimsivad October 19 2007, 00:17:25 UTC

Yay! Kierkegaard! He's pretty awesome, I agree. :-)

You might want to check out The Last Temptation of Christ by Niktos Kazantzakis. Granted, it's more about temptation than faith, but it has a lot to do with the inner struggle of a man to do what he's been ordained to do by God, so I think you might like it. If anything made me suddenly have an "a-ha!" moment and really understand Christianity/Jesus/etc, it was that book. You could also watch the movie if you don't have the time to read non-Program stuff, but the book goes a lot deeper and will make you think harder.

why not try to struggle with the true faith before wandering into heresies... benjaminmann October 19 2007, 05:50:43 UTC

anyone can make up a non-divine 'jesus' he likes and can handle. that is what the author of 'last temptation' did.

whether that is a valuable exercise, i suppose we could debate. but we would all agree it is the opposite of faith.

Re: why not try to struggle with the true faith before wandering into heresies... selimsivad October 19 2007, 06:59:04 UTC

Upon looking at your journal, I see why my statement might have caused you considerable distress, so let me ammend it a bit. I may be a Christian (depending on one's definition of the word), but am not a Catholic. That said, I have read a fair amount of Catholic theology. I understand its importance and intellectual depth. However, I still believe that Kazantzakis interprets the gospel narratives in a credible way, which, incidenitly, preserves the inherrant divinity of Christ and the gospels themselves.

I don't want to waste time debating this with you so I will just drop the matter right now. I have my views and you have yours... but you can rest assured that I have not blindly wandered into heresy.

benjaminmann October 19 2007, 14:24:44 UTC

that's fine with me; we'd probably agree that Christology doesn't make the best internet-debate-topic (does anything, actually?). i appreciate your candor, and i apologize for giving the message such a confrontational subject-line.

hibernaldream October 19 2007, 04:08:57 UTC

Kierkegaard's journals are even more amazing, in my opinion. I've only read a small portion of The Sickness Unto Death, so it's possible that I'd get into Fear and Trembling a lot more, but you can more or less open his journals at any page and find something worth thinking about.

her_own_monster October 20 2007, 04:45:17 UTC

Random side-note: In the list of preceptorials availabel to us this year, that work was typoed as "The Suckness Unto Death" which has become a huge joke in my dorm :)

Yeah, I actually think I'll pick up other of his stuff to read at later dates, which is something I can only say of Spinoza so far (weird, that I'd choose Kierkegaard and Spinoza...)

what a brilliant typo! benjaminmann October 20 2007, 20:52:10 UTC

John 11:4:
'This suckness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.'

that's actually quite profound...

Re: what a brilliant typo! her_own_monster October 21 2007, 16:28:03 UTC

You know, I'd been meaning to email you about that since I first saw it, but kept forgetting. Knew you'd get a kick out of it :)

benjaminmann October 19 2007, 06:32:30 UTC

you should perhaps talk to stella some more about this. she understands the whole cusp-of-believing thing much, much better than i do. (i got hit by a thunderbolt. that is a different kind of difficulty.) you would also do well to talk to walter sterling. if you've never had him for a class or anything, just tell him that ben mann sent you and you'll at least have a lead-in. mr. sterling seems to me like someone who maintains his faith despite major difficulties ( ... )

her_own_monster October 20 2007, 04:49:19 UTC

That IS a start, and a good one. I like the way you put it in the last line: "the problem of trusting God." That seems to sum it up.

This is very well-said, and I'm sorry I don't have a good response, except to say that it's given me something to think about :)

cunn1nglinguist October 19 2007, 06:41:07 UTC

Kelly and I go back and forth on faith a lot, since I don't have any and he as a faithful Catholic has a hard time justifying it. We've somewhat concluded that faith seems to be a sort of metaphysical language that helps us to define and analyze metaphysical problems. Moreover, just like a first language, if you don't "get" faith as a small child it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to acquire (for the language example check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child) ). Faith exists in every culture in different manifestations, just as language does, and also seems to have a very strong, deeply rooted cognitive basis. That is to say, it's an intrinsic part of being human ( ... )

cunn1nglinguist October 19 2007, 06:43:12 UTC

ok that link should include the closing parenthesis <3 lj >:

her_own_monster October 20 2007, 04:51:00 UTC

Does faith exist in every culture? Older pagan religions seem to rely on direct contact with deity(ies), don't they? Still, I like the idea of talking about it in terms of language, keeping in mind the way language affects the way one thinks.

elivyre October 19 2007, 08:44:15 UTC

I'm not any better at explaining faith than any of the people who have commented here so far, and I haven't read Kierkegaard yet, but I do feel like we (we being people of your acquaintance who have managed to cling to something that looks like faith in spite of everything) have done you some great disservice if we've led you to believe that faith is a shiny, magical thing that you either just have or don't. It may be that way for some people, but it's not for any of the Christians I know. At least, not for those for whom I have the most respect. Any real relationship is the result of effort--it takes a lot of perseverance and...well...faith...to keep up a deep friendship or love even with another person--another human who can be touched and conversed with. That feeling any kind of real Closeness to God is so much more difficult is almost to be expected ( ... )