I'd like to blame it on the writing, but I honestly don't think that's it.
Actually, I'd say you have every right to, cause the writers don't really seem to be in agreement themselves about her character. Every writer has a totally different take on her, which leads to VERY mixed messages.
xparrot and I have probably spent waaaaaay too much time dissecting her character from every angle (have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subject :-p) and the more you look at it, the more the writers seem to be in as much confusion, so...:-p
But Ronon/Rodney running around was truly love, ne? Not to mention HOT! Mmmmm...
I think the writing is a little to blame, but I can't be completely sure I'm not being influenced by outside forces, such as spoilers or the way the actors talk about their characters. Actually, I do think that last bit is something that influenced my general "ergh" feelings on her last season, because most of the initial interviews seemed fixated on who Keller would "hook up" with.
I'm finding that (with small exceptions), I really do like Jennifer Keller the character, who isn't quite comfortable in her skin but tries anyway. In fact, I even kind of like Jennifer Keller the character who might fall in love with someone, but I cannot help but be irked by Jennifer Keller the Love Interest... if that makes any sense?
have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subjectI'll play Devil's Advocate and say "DO IT!" I love reading meta of that type
( ... )
but I can't be completely sure I'm not being influenced by outside forces, such as spoilers or the way the actors talk about their characters.
I was definitely having a problem with that in this episode -- specifically an interview with Jason Momoa I'd read back at the start of the season where he talked about this episode and his character's relationships with Keller and Rodney. Knowing how he feels about the characters' relationships (he's very lukewarm on both of them), it's really hard not to see that when he plays out those on-screen connections.
Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XD
I really didn't like that interview with Jason Momoa at all, as it totally took the wind out of my sails. Honestly, I'm not sure if I was more taken off guard by his "Rodney and Ronon aren't friends" statement, or that he considered John to be closer to Ronon than Teyla. (I'm horribly attached to the Ronon/Teyla BFF concept, I admit.) It was almost as confusing and off-putting as Rodney's "best friend" declaration in "Sunday".
Thankfully, I'm not seeing it on screen like I was fearing. I think that's mostly due to a big case of denial ("Team is frendz!"), and the firm decision that while that's may be Jason's interpretation, I as a viewer can think that he's just wrong... until it somehow comes out in canon, then the Denial River just gets bigger.
The team are friends and they like each other darn it! /denial
Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XDIt really doesn't! XD I could probably have a whole trilogy of movies dealing with "Rodney as damsel-in-distress" and I'd still be a wiggly, happy, squee'ing thing. I'm
( ... )
I blame the writers for inconsistencies in Keller's character.
Best moment for me: when Keller offers to put the defib paddles on Kiryk, Brilliant Husband said, "Because I've been experimenting with putting them in different places!" (harking back, of course, to defibrillating Sheppard's kidneys in "Doppelganger"), and I laughed so hard I might have missed a little dialogue.
My one complaint is that I think Ronon and Rodney are better friends than they showed last night, and I could do with seeing a little of that. My favorite line that did not come from BH was Rodney's "And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."
I'm very happy with Keller being a competent and ethical doctor and saving her patients and doing better hand-to-hand than Rodney ever does!
I do know there are some inconsistencies with the character, and it is partly the writer's fault, but they don't just do it with Keller. They all have the tendency to use the characters to suit the plot, rather than let the characters guide the plot. Some writers are worse than others (*coughMallozziMullieGerocough*), and I know that they have to fit things into a short time frame, but still...
They do force things to happen with the characters rather than let them take a natural progress. I'm not bitter at all that the end scene from "The Shrine" and the way it almost twisted my viewing of Keller. No.
And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."
Hee! That was awesome. I'm in the middle of rewatching the episode again, but the Ronon/Rodney interaction really isn't bothering me that much. I think it's because Ronon and Rodney don't quite get each other in the way the rest of the team does, so the expression of their friendship is a little more rough and tumble.
They all have the tendency to use the characters to suit the plot, rather than let the characters guide the plot. Absolutely! I rant about it not infrequently. I think Rodney frequently reverts to earlier stages of character development, not just for plot reasons, but because the writers think it will get them a cheap laugh. Hey, we all revert sometimes, but I'm really tired of watching Rodney act like he did when he was still a noob.
BH said he was particularly struck by the paucity of friendship shown between Ronon and Rodney given how close Rodney was to dying not all that long ago. They may not get each other, but they do care for each other. (Awww, team....)
I think Rodney frequently reverts to earlier stages of character development, not just for plot reasons, but because the writers think it will get them a cheap laugh.
The cheap laughs don't really bother me most of the time, because I can see it as part of Rodney's core character. He's capable of change, and he does change, but he thinks. A lot. Maybe all of the time, which can lead to him not thinking about the task at hand -- and missing social cues, so he winds up putting his foot into his mouth, realizing that he shouldn't be talking, should not be screaming at the top of his lungs and attract an entire troupe of Hunter Wraiths.
Yes, yes, it probably is writing choices, but I like to rationalize things out via canon.
I'm more disgruntled when they do it for the sake of plot, and it's a major regression for no other point than they feel like they can because they're writers. For me, "Trinity" is a huge case of this. I honestly thought I saw a lot of character growth in season one, to the point where he wouldn't be making stupid
( ... )
I liked the episode! Went into it all open-minded and zen, and Keller seriously rocked.
I hate the 'two guys fighting over a girl' angle, I do, but competent Keller, and a hot new Runner and tough tracker Ronon and adorable Rodney with his non-existing combat skills and a new alien gadget and BEAUTIFUL Vancouver nature, it all made for a very enjoyable episode.
I can't pinpoint my reaction to Keller either. I like her, but I can't stop myself from thinking that she is too young to be Head of Medicine on an alien outpost. It keeps me from fully enjoying her character.
And about the love triangle. I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day. Ronon, however - oh, I love her with Ronon! I think they are adorable together - it shows Ronon's softer side and I love how he handles their friendship, very cool and low key.
A great big "YES!" to all the things you mentioned (I seriously loved the forest in this episode, so very pretty.) I wasn't exactly thrilled about it at first, but I have warmed to the idea of Ronon and Keller. I'm also not opposed to the idea of Rodney/Keller, but I had serious issues with the way it was dealt with in "The Shrine" that makes me hesitant to want to see it onscreen now.
I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.
You see, I think Sam is a different ball game entirely *g* He sees her as being the same level as him mentally (and she completely beats him out in the physical and heroic aspect), and so he's threatened by her... as well as attracted to her. But I don't think he ever really believes there's a serious chance with her, like he might with Katie, Keller, or even Allina from "The Brotherhood". So in that way, he's more comfortable
( ... )
I like her, but I can't stop myself from thinking that she is too young to be Head of Medicine on an alien outpost. It keeps me from fully enjoying her character.
Yes to pretty much all of this. The main reason I can't quite enjoy Keller's char is because I don't get her - I don't understand how she got her job; moreover, I don't understand why she wants her job. Is she interested in proving herself, or saving people, or meeting hot guys, or what?
Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.YES. Okay, he was totally obnoxious about it - but Rodney knew what he wanted and he wasn't afraid to admit it, and he genuinely wanted Sam (even if mainly on the sexual level) rather than "a relationship" - which is how he comes across, to me, with both Katie Brown and Keller - that he's not attracted to them so much as attracted to the idea of being in love and having a girlfriend, never really getting to know the person he's supposedly in love with
( ... )
Is she interested in proving herself, or saving people, or meeting hot guys, or what?
Oh yes, exactly that. Even Sgt Dusty got to explain why she transfered to Pegasus.
What really galls me, is the numerous posts and semi-scientific poll 'conclusions' that point to it being our fault that SGA was discontinued, because we, the fans, hate Keller.
I don't hate Keller, I don't begrudge her her scenes and I would love to see her in a relationship with Ronon (and why these things always have to be dragged out for two seasons, lord knows. Who would wait that long, stuck on a small base). But you know writers - I for one, would love some background, some explanation as to why she's Head of Medicine, brain surgeon, plastic surgeon *and* genetic scientist at the tender age of 26. It helps me to understand and warm up to her character.
[/rant]
ps Grey, I'd love to read that follow-up meta post. XD
I had a similar reaction, was expecting to dislike it and was surprised I didn't. I do kinda wish Rodney & Ronon had been the A-plot, because yay for woodsy hijinx and saving themselves/each other - but then the triangle might've been emphasized in that case, so more content with it like this.
Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough* (and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)
Keller...ehhhhh. I'm annoyed because I did like her when she was first introduced, and now I've swung over to not liking her, and I'm having trouble swinging back even though she did a lot of good stuff in this ep that I should like her for. I was really pleased to hear she has been studying hand-to-hand (and also pleased that they pitted her against a Wraith that had already been shot in the heart a couple times, because it made it believable to me that she could defend herself while Rodney reloaded. Which he really needs to practice more, poor thing. Though I liked how he fired without hesitating, confident enough of his aim even
( ... )
*sobs* I had a huge, insightful post on Keller, and humorous and fun alternative A-plots for this episode written out, and then I accidentally closed the tab, and I'm not sure I remember most of it. Very annoying.
Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough*
They should put Rodney in mortal peril once a week, just so we can have adequate eye candy. I certainly wouldn't complain.
(and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)
We were! I actually giggled a little when I saw the trap because of that! Well, it's less steel and metal, but still looks just as painful.
I, uh, am very curious about your ranty post. Could I be on that filter? Or else could you send a private copy?
LOL, well, both you and trystings asked to see it... so maybe I'll try and salvage something that resembles an actual post. I wound up stopping after I got off into a big tangent about the last five seconds of "The Shrine", that definitely strayed from meta into the territory of "TPTB aren't writing to my specifications". Which, uh, wasn't my original
( ... )
Comments 22
Actually, I'd say you have every right to, cause the writers don't really seem to be in agreement themselves about her character. Every writer has a totally different take on her, which leads to VERY mixed messages.
xparrot and I have probably spent waaaaaay too much time dissecting her character from every angle (have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subject :-p) and the more you look at it, the more the writers seem to be in as much confusion, so...:-p
But Ronon/Rodney running around was truly love, ne? Not to mention HOT! Mmmmm...
Reply
I'm finding that (with small exceptions), I really do like Jennifer Keller the character, who isn't quite comfortable in her skin but tries anyway. In fact, I even kind of like Jennifer Keller the character who might fall in love with someone, but I cannot help but be irked by Jennifer Keller the Love Interest... if that makes any sense?
have a LONG essay I'm debating actually putting up on the subjectI'll play Devil's Advocate and say "DO IT!" I love reading meta of that type ( ... )
Reply
I was definitely having a problem with that in this episode -- specifically an interview with Jason Momoa I'd read back at the start of the season where he talked about this episode and his character's relationships with Keller and Rodney. Knowing how he feels about the characters' relationships (he's very lukewarm on both of them), it's really hard not to see that when he plays out those on-screen connections.
Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XD
Reply
Thankfully, I'm not seeing it on screen like I was fearing. I think that's mostly due to a big case of denial ("Team is frendz!"), and the firm decision that while that's may be Jason's interpretation, I as a viewer can think that he's just wrong... until it somehow comes out in canon, then the Denial River just gets bigger.
The team are friends and they like each other darn it! /denial
Rodney as damsel-in-distress never gets old, though. XDIt really doesn't! XD I could probably have a whole trilogy of movies dealing with "Rodney as damsel-in-distress" and I'd still be a wiggly, happy, squee'ing thing. I'm ( ... )
Reply
Best moment for me: when Keller offers to put the defib paddles on Kiryk, Brilliant Husband said, "Because I've been experimenting with putting them in different places!" (harking back, of course, to defibrillating Sheppard's kidneys in "Doppelganger"), and I laughed so hard I might have missed a little dialogue.
My one complaint is that I think Ronon and Rodney are better friends than they showed last night, and I could do with seeing a little of that. My favorite line that did not come from BH was Rodney's "And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."
I'm very happy with Keller being a competent and ethical doctor and saving her patients and doing better hand-to-hand than Rodney ever does!
Reply
They do force things to happen with the characters rather than let them take a natural progress. I'm not bitter at all that the end scene from "The Shrine" and the way it almost twisted my viewing of Keller. No.
And you'll say, 'Good work,' or grunt, or slap me on the back unnecessarily hard."
Hee! That was awesome. I'm in the middle of rewatching the episode again, but the Ronon/Rodney interaction really isn't bothering me that much. I think it's because Ronon and Rodney don't quite get each other in the way the rest of the team does, so the expression of their friendship is a little more rough and tumble.
I'm very happy with Keller being ( ... )
Reply
Absolutely! I rant about it not infrequently. I think Rodney frequently reverts to earlier stages of character development, not just for plot reasons, but because the writers think it will get them a cheap laugh. Hey, we all revert sometimes, but I'm really tired of watching Rodney act like he did when he was still a noob.
BH said he was particularly struck by the paucity of friendship shown between Ronon and Rodney given how close Rodney was to dying not all that long ago. They may not get each other, but they do care for each other. (Awww, team....)
Reply
The cheap laughs don't really bother me most of the time, because I can see it as part of Rodney's core character. He's capable of change, and he does change, but he thinks. A lot. Maybe all of the time, which can lead to him not thinking about the task at hand -- and missing social cues, so he winds up putting his foot into his mouth, realizing that he shouldn't be talking, should not be screaming at the top of his lungs and attract an entire troupe of Hunter Wraiths.
Yes, yes, it probably is writing choices, but I like to rationalize things out via canon.
I'm more disgruntled when they do it for the sake of plot, and it's a major regression for no other point than they feel like they can because they're writers. For me, "Trinity" is a huge case of this. I honestly thought I saw a lot of character growth in season one, to the point where he wouldn't be making stupid ( ... )
Reply
I hate the 'two guys fighting over a girl' angle, I do, but competent Keller, and a hot new Runner and tough tracker Ronon and adorable Rodney with his non-existing combat skills and a new alien gadget and BEAUTIFUL Vancouver nature, it all made for a very enjoyable episode.
I can't pinpoint my reaction to Keller either. I like her, but I can't stop myself from thinking that she is too young to be Head of Medicine on an alien outpost. It keeps me from fully enjoying her character.
And about the love triangle. I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day. Ronon, however - oh, I love her with Ronon! I think they are adorable together - it shows Ronon's softer side and I love how he handles their friendship, very cool and low key.
Reply
A great big "YES!" to all the things you mentioned (I seriously loved the forest in this episode, so very pretty.) I wasn't exactly thrilled about it at first, but I have warmed to the idea of Ronon and Keller. I'm also not opposed to the idea of Rodney/Keller, but I had serious issues with the way it was dealt with in "The Shrine" that makes me hesitant to want to see it onscreen now.
I don't understand why Rodney becomes so clueless and awkward when he likes a woman. Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.
You see, I think Sam is a different ball game entirely *g* He sees her as being the same level as him mentally (and she completely beats him out in the physical and heroic aspect), and so he's threatened by her... as well as attracted to her. But I don't think he ever really believes there's a serious chance with her, like he might with Katie, Keller, or even Allina from "The Brotherhood". So in that way, he's more comfortable ( ... )
Reply
Yes to pretty much all of this. The main reason I can't quite enjoy Keller's char is because I don't get her - I don't understand how she got her job; moreover, I don't understand why she wants her job. Is she interested in proving herself, or saving people, or meeting hot guys, or what?
Give me the overly-confident, acerbic Rodney who went after Carter in SG-1, over this stumbling, awkward guy any day.YES. Okay, he was totally obnoxious about it - but Rodney knew what he wanted and he wasn't afraid to admit it, and he genuinely wanted Sam (even if mainly on the sexual level) rather than "a relationship" - which is how he comes across, to me, with both Katie Brown and Keller - that he's not attracted to them so much as attracted to the idea of being in love and having a girlfriend, never really getting to know the person he's supposedly in love with ( ... )
Reply
Oh yes, exactly that. Even Sgt Dusty got to explain why she transfered to Pegasus.
What really galls me, is the numerous posts and semi-scientific poll 'conclusions' that point to it being our fault that SGA was discontinued, because we, the fans, hate Keller.
I don't hate Keller, I don't begrudge her her scenes and I would love to see her in a relationship with Ronon (and why these things always have to be dragged out for two seasons, lord knows. Who would wait that long, stuck on a small base). But you know writers - I for one, would love some background, some explanation as to why she's Head of Medicine, brain surgeon, plastic surgeon *and* genetic scientist at the tender age of 26. It helps me to understand and warm up to her character.
[/rant]
ps Grey, I'd love to read that follow-up meta post. XD
Reply
Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough* (and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)
Keller...ehhhhh. I'm annoyed because I did like her when she was first introduced, and now I've swung over to not liking her, and I'm having trouble swinging back even though she did a lot of good stuff in this ep that I should like her for. I was really pleased to hear she has been studying hand-to-hand (and also pleased that they pitted her against a Wraith that had already been shot in the heart a couple times, because it made it believable to me that she could defend herself while Rodney reloaded. Which he really needs to practice more, poor thing. Though I liked how he fired without hesitating, confident enough of his aim even ( ... )
Reply
Damsel-in-distress!Rodney is so pretty! *cough*
They should put Rodney in mortal peril once a week, just so we can have adequate eye candy. I certainly wouldn't complain.
(and the bear-trap! Weren't we just talking about that? XP)
We were! I actually giggled a little when I saw the trap because of that! Well, it's less steel and metal, but still looks just as painful.
I, uh, am very curious about your ranty post. Could I be on that filter? Or else could you send a private copy?
LOL, well, both you and trystings asked to see it... so maybe I'll try and salvage something that resembles an actual post. I wound up stopping after I got off into a big tangent about the last five seconds of "The Shrine", that definitely strayed from meta into the territory of "TPTB aren't writing to my specifications". Which, uh, wasn't my original ( ... )
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