I agree that I definitely felt like I was watching 2 different episodes at times. I also agree that they've done a better job in the past of meshing light-hearted and serious plot lines together.
I think this was the first time that Faora's name was actually said out loud, but I could be wrong.
I also didn't appreciate that the writers didn't think it a better idea to have Clark snap himself out of the mindwhammy, as opposed to Chloe saving the day. I agree! I really don't like it when Chloe "saves him from himself." Ugh.
Yes, we are to infer presumably that Zod killing was finally the proverbial last straw, and that while Clark knew some aspects of the future were already changing, others would still be set in motion if he didn't make some changes of his own in the now - but it seemed rushed, nonetheless, or conversely, way overdue and delayed - whichever way you want to look at it. I agree. It seems like Clark hasn't really been dealing with any of this since Pandora and then all of the sudden BOOM! (literally) :-)
I also thought that was weird and forgot to mention it in my own review. If this was a soap opera, that line would have made me think, "I guess Jor-El is going to have a long lost child appear in the near future..." This better NOT happen though! Hopefully, it was just a stupid line that no one involved in the show noticed for some reason...
Heh, I didn't even notice it till Seema pointed it out! I took it as more of a Kryptonian tradition thing. First-borns are probably the ones to bury/cremate their fathers. Zod was probably just using that to tell Clark that as a first-born, he should be seeking vengeance for Jor-El's death.
We discovered, for one thing, (or maybe we already had but I was just too dense to have not heard it till now) that perpetual!ponytail!Kandorian was Faora.
I heard it as Aora, but it could have been either. I doubt they'd use Faora, though, because isn't that the name of Zod's second wife? The mother of Doomsday? Wouldn't that get too confusing? Unless she IS supposed to be his future wife? I don't know.
As far as Clark' role in this side of the plot goes, I was hardpressed to understand why Clark would think he would be able to get it past Zod that he was providing the Kandorians with new identities.
Agreed. I brought this up in my review as well, but I'm seriously wondering what the hell his plan was supposed to be. I thought he came out of "Pandora" with the hopes of befriending Zod? What part of that involved going behind his back?
I also didn't appreciate that the writers didn't think it a better idea to have Clark snap himself out of the mindwhammy, as opposed to Chloe saving the day.Not only did it take the focus off Clark
( ... )
//I doubt they'd use Faora, though, because isn't that the name of Zod's second wife? The mother of Doomsday? Wouldn't that get too confusing? Unless she IS supposed to be his future wife? I don't know
( ... )
Re: Part 1starry_dawnFebruary 21 2010, 10:31:22 UTC
I think, while Clark knew of Zod' potential megalomania and craziness but the whole point of him not going trigger happy on him so to speak was to sort of pre-emptively see if he would take another path in this timeline, under different circumstances. And with killing Alia, it's probably confirmed to Clark that Zod will still make the same choices, no matter what.
I get this, but the problem I have with this is that of all the instances that Clark could use as proof that Zod was always going to be crazy, he chose the one thing that actually had less to do with Zod himself, and more to do with "tradition". Lots of people do crazy stuff in the name of tradition, not because they want to, but because that's what they think is right. It just bugs me that that was what changed Clark's mind about the whole thing.
But the niggling part in this equation, which reflects terribly on the writers, is that why didn't Clark already come to this conclusion after Zod began the constuction of the towers? That should've been the greatest honking red
( ... )
Needless to say, I'm with Clark on this one, as I was then, and as I am now too. Davis was a killer. Known killer. Multiple murderer whose destiny included killing Clark. Now, as shady as the Kandorians are, and they are, I fully see that, and their potential for mass-murderness too, but they still haven't done anything yet IMO that warrants sending them as humans no less to a place such as the PZ.
I don't know. I'm actually with Chloe on this one. Partly because I KNOW the writers are doing this to make Clark look stupid and that in the end, it's DEFINITELY going to come back and bite him in the ass. Secondly, they're not even the real versions of themselves. They're clones who were made AGAINST Jor-El's wishes, and I don't really consider it wrong for them to be sent to the PZ. They've ALREADY done enough stuff to be considered problematic (including killing quite a few humans), and Clark KNOWS the Zod of the future is a crazy megalomaniac. Why not just stop it now?
//I don't know. I'm actually with Chloe on this one. Partly because I KNOW the writers are doing this to make Clark look stupid and that in the end, it's DEFINITELY going to come back and bite him in the ass. Secondly, they're not even the real versions of themselves. They're clones who were made AGAINST Jor-El's wishes, and I don't really consider it wrong for them to be sent to the PZ. They've ALREADY done enough stuff to be considered problematic (including killing quite a few humans), and Clark KNOWS the Zod of the future is a crazy megalomaniac. Why not just stop it now
( ... )
Re: Part 2starry_dawnFebruary 21 2010, 10:39:13 UTC
I still think it boils down to a comparitive scale of relative evil. Does that make sense? Is it right? Probably not, but all I know is I viewed Davis straight out as a mass murderer whose very destiny included becoming a beast and annihilating Clark. Whereas, with the Kandorians I can even correlate this with Zod, but when it comes to the rest of them? They're not an enmasse murderous collective. Individuals within them, certainly. But as an entire group, I'm not sure.
Okay, I get this. But I think it still doesn't justify Clark not considering the option at all, especially now that he knows Zod is upto no good. I'm not saying he should bump everyone off to the PZ, just Zod. I'm positive, though, that we'll spend the remainder of the season watching Clark try and make peace somehow, with obviously disastrous results, and I'm not looking forward to that.
I can see what you're saying that she might have learnt her lesson but I just got unpleasant flashbacks to her relationship with Davis all over again, which, I still maintain was
( ... )
//That's precisely why I think it's not so much about double standards as Chloe seeing things more clearly in this case. I think she was too emotionally involved in Davis's situation to even consider the PZ as a viable option. Now that she knows how that ended, combined with the fact that she has a more third-person perspective on this situation, I don't find it hard to believe that she would suggest the PZ as a possible course of action
( ... )
The Chlark scenes didn't really work for me in this one either, I'm afraid and I absolutely cringed at Chloe' "sometimes protecting you means having to protect you from yourself." I can really, really live without hearing this from her again.
Agreed!!
But I think it would have been so much more fitting for him as a character and the story if in that ring of fire, we'd have been shown a Clark fighting the whammy and eventually triumphing over it due to his own innate goodness and better sense - which already is extraordinary, IMO, rather than the Green!K we ended up getting.
I couldn't agree more! I can't understand why there's no one writer there to really understand Clark and do right by him. It would have made so much more sense to have Clark triumphing over the spell. But no, they have to resort to Chloe and the greenK again! Ugh!
//I can't understand why there's no one writer there to really understand Clark and do right by him.//
I've never been able to understand this either. They're so half baked with him. Seems one scene they'll love writing for Clark and do the character complete justice and then the next scene they can't even be bothered to string together a coherent motivation for him. And this dichotomy was especially apparent in this ep.
//I have no problems with it at all actually, as long it's made very clear to the audience that he's under a powerful influence. In fact, Clark's rampage here seemed almost tame to the ones I've seen in the comics, like in "Sacrifice" where he would've most certainly kill his own friend if it wasn't for Diana stopping him. What would make the entire difference IMO, is whether they'd show him facing the consequences later. In the case of "Persuasion", there's none of that.//
I'm glad you bring up the comics, because yes, you're absolutely right - but this sort of reiterates my issue even doubly with how it was handled here. Because unlike in the comics, we are not afforded that post-event insight in to Clark here, and I really resent that.
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I think this was the first time that Faora's name was actually said out loud, but I could be wrong.
I also didn't appreciate that the writers didn't think it a better idea to have Clark snap himself out of the mindwhammy, as opposed to Chloe saving the day.
I agree! I really don't like it when Chloe "saves him from himself." Ugh.
Yes, we are to infer presumably that Zod killing was finally the proverbial last straw, and that while Clark knew some aspects of the future were already changing, others would still be set in motion if he didn't make some changes of his own in the now - but it seemed rushed, nonetheless, or conversely, way overdue and delayed - whichever way you want to look at it.
I agree. It seems like Clark hasn't really been dealing with any of this since Pandora and then all of the sudden BOOM! (literally) :-)
And what made ( ... )
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This better NOT happen though! Hopefully, it was just a stupid line that no one involved in the show noticed for some reason...
Heh, I didn't even notice it till Seema pointed it out! I took it as more of a Kryptonian tradition thing. First-borns are probably the ones to bury/cremate their fathers. Zod was probably just using that to tell Clark that as a first-born, he should be seeking vengeance for Jor-El's death.
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(The comment has been removed)
I heard it as Aora, but it could have been either. I doubt they'd use Faora, though, because isn't that the name of Zod's second wife? The mother of Doomsday? Wouldn't that get too confusing? Unless she IS supposed to be his future wife? I don't know.
As far as Clark' role in this side of the plot goes, I was hardpressed to understand why Clark would think he would be able to get it past Zod that he was providing the Kandorians with new identities.
Agreed. I brought this up in my review as well, but I'm seriously wondering what the hell his plan was supposed to be. I thought he came out of "Pandora" with the hopes of befriending Zod? What part of that involved going behind his back?
I also didn't appreciate that the writers didn't think it a better idea to have Clark snap himself out of the mindwhammy, as opposed to Chloe saving the day.Not only did it take the focus off Clark ( ... )
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I get this, but the problem I have with this is that of all the instances that Clark could use as proof that Zod was always going to be crazy, he chose the one thing that actually had less to do with Zod himself, and more to do with "tradition". Lots of people do crazy stuff in the name of tradition, not because they want to, but because that's what they think is right. It just bugs me that that was what changed Clark's mind about the whole thing.
But the niggling part in this equation, which reflects terribly on the writers, is that why didn't Clark already come to this conclusion after Zod began the constuction of the towers? That should've been the greatest honking red ( ... )
Reply
Needless to say, I'm with Clark on this one, as I was then, and as I am now too. Davis was a killer. Known killer. Multiple murderer whose destiny included killing Clark. Now, as shady as the Kandorians are, and they are, I fully see that, and their potential for mass-murderness too, but they still haven't done anything yet IMO that warrants sending them as humans no less to a place such as the PZ.
I don't know. I'm actually with Chloe on this one. Partly because I KNOW the writers are doing this to make Clark look stupid and that in the end, it's DEFINITELY going to come back and bite him in the ass. Secondly, they're not even the real versions of themselves. They're clones who were made AGAINST Jor-El's wishes, and I don't really consider it wrong for them to be sent to the PZ. They've ALREADY done enough stuff to be considered problematic (including killing quite a few humans), and Clark KNOWS the Zod of the future is a crazy megalomaniac. Why not just stop it now?
The Chlark scenes ( ... )
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Okay, I get this. But I think it still doesn't justify Clark not considering the option at all, especially now that he knows Zod is upto no good. I'm not saying he should bump everyone off to the PZ, just Zod. I'm positive, though, that we'll spend the remainder of the season watching Clark try and make peace somehow, with obviously disastrous results, and I'm not looking forward to that.
I can see what you're saying that she might have learnt her lesson but I just got unpleasant flashbacks to her relationship with Davis all over again, which, I still maintain was ( ... )
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The Chlark scenes didn't really work for me in this one either, I'm afraid and I absolutely cringed at Chloe' "sometimes protecting you means having to protect you from yourself." I can really, really live without hearing this from her again.
Agreed!!
But I think it would have been so much more fitting for him as a character and the story if in that ring of fire, we'd have been shown a Clark fighting the whammy and eventually triumphing over it due to his own innate goodness and better sense - which already is extraordinary, IMO, rather than the Green!K we ended up getting.
I couldn't agree more! I can't understand why there's no one writer there to really understand Clark and do right by him. It would have made so much more sense to have Clark triumphing over the spell. But no, they have to resort to Chloe and the greenK again! Ugh!
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//I can't understand why there's no one writer there to really understand Clark and do right by him.//
I've never been able to understand this either. They're so half baked with him. Seems one scene they'll love writing for Clark and do the character complete justice and then the next scene they can't even be bothered to string together a coherent motivation for him. And this dichotomy was especially apparent in this ep.
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(The comment has been removed)
I'm glad you bring up the comics, because yes, you're absolutely right - but this sort of reiterates my issue even doubly with how it was handled here. Because unlike in the comics, we are not afforded that post-event insight in to Clark here, and I really resent that.
Also? Good to see you around these parts. :-)
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