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[ginzai]

I need a new sketchbook. Somewhat to my bemusement, I discovered I'd used the last page on my current one yesterday, which was wicked annoying because La Bohème came on the classic movie channel and I really wanted to draw some of the people there. They're all just ridiculously pretty in that 1920's sort of way. Something about how stylized

Comments

[yaya_wr8t3r]

Wow! This is a long rant LOL

It's long because I ramble :)

[ginzai]

I didn't get the impression that Sam was talking about a specific incident with the mention of Ruby so much as what he did all throughout S4. If he was referring to 4x21, they both gave each other ultimatums and the first was given by Sam, not Dean. He told Dean that he could come with and do things Sam's way, or he could stay behind. He'd already been half out the door by the time Dean gave Sam his

Re: It's long because I ramble :)

[muffaletta]

Excellent meta, Phinnie. I also don't see Dean's admission in the final scene as being especially "freeing" for Dean: he basically said that in keeping a short leash on Sam, he missed seeing how things were negatively impacting Sam. The implication, imo, is that Dean needs to maintain a different perspective so he can better take care of Sam's needs. There was nothing from either Dean or Sam about how this new arrangement would benefit both brothers, or about what Sam will do in a mutual effort to fix their old dynamic. Dean seems to be once again bearing the onus of bearing the responsibility of the relationship on his shoulders while Sam needs to....stop drinking blood? screwing demons? As part of becoming a grown up, I'd hope Sam would look inward to see what he can change in his attitude towards Dean-perhaps a little more respect? less eye rolling and fewer bitch faces? less condescending correction of Dean's mistakes? It was actually the non resolution of Dean's annoyed reaction to Sam correcting his Spanish that gives me

Re: It's long because I ramble :)

[ginzai]

Thanks. I see Dean in that last conversation almost taking up a burden again. We saw him in 5x03 as the freest he's been at any point in the series (which could be an interesting meta in its own right, the fact that him accepting separation from his family brought him more peace than his mostly "getting over" Hell did), but the end of the episode felt more to me like he was girding his loins again. He wasn't relaxed like he was in 5x03. He seemed tense to me.

And very much agreed. My issue is much more about the fact that this was unequal than it is that Sam has a bit of a skewed idea of what makes a normal partnership. I don't mind Sam making snide comments or the bitchfaces or the rolled eyes (outside of confessions of Hell, that is) - to me, that's a pretty normal part of being brothers. I do mind that Sam really thinks he's been so put upon and that all he needs to do to fix things is just to tell Dean he needs to stop bossing him around.

[leelust]

Oh, gawds, i so hope Dean pulling Ruby there otherwise i don't see any way 'to admit' this shitty ep into canon.
As for old dynamics in the end they came to that ugly old dynamics of S1 :( And if it's Kripke's way to see bond being fixed i think we have a problem. If that's the way the show sees brothers' relationship i honestly don't know why we watched all four seasons and developing of the characters. It all was for nothing.
I know it's just a tv show but i was invested in it for 4 years and it hurts when they ruin what they built for so long.

[ginzai]

This was my least favorite episode in the entire series. I really enjoyed 5x01-5x03, thought 5x04 was merely okay (when it should have been epic), but 5x05 was crass, overwrought, and poorly put together. Urgh.

I think you've got a good point about the dynamics they showed here, though I'd almost argue that it was closer to the worst parts of S2 than S1. I was really reminded of Sam's ultimatum in Hunted, with the "you want to protect me, you do it my way" speech and all.

And yes, of this is the supposed resolution of the broken bond, I've really got to ask why I've bothered to watch. I've only been into Supernatural for just under a year, but it still feels like a betrayal of the promise that was held. Why bother to build up Dean's independence and Sam's growing maturity if they're just going to be dashed down again?

[traciaknows]

Dude. You've been holding this in all week haven't you? I can just completely see all of the eye twitching and temple rubbing....

I don't see you completely breaking up with SPN- i bet you become friends with benefits- which would totally be better than my current relationship with Torchwood- it doesn't call anymore. Do you think that possibly it's just not that into me anymore?

Oh! "...family's supposed to make you miserable..." lol! Well, it is... Haven't you met some of our parents?

[ginzai]

Well, to be fair, it was a REALLY sucky episode. XD

Dude, Torchwood is a player. I told you that. It didn't respect you at all. You can do better! (My NCIS - let me show it to you! It's just such a nice show; did you know it has a character who is a doctor on it?)

Ha! Why, yes, yes I have. But the point is that they don't make you miserable all the time. Just most of it. And they don't tell you to suck it up and stop whining, princess, after members of said family beat the crap out of you and then strangle you and those are only the highlights. Just saying.

I don't get the fandom love for Bobby, I really don't. I want him to just go away already.

[ginzai]

Also, what are you doing up so early?

[ann_tara]

Hi, I friended you a couple weeks ago when I found one of your metas that I thought was dead on and said everything going on in my head that I was thinking, but better. And here you did it again. ;) In fact, I was so distraught after this episode, I spent way more time than I normally would for anything searching and reading and trying to find someone to make me feel a little better about the way the piss-poor writing in this episode made everything so one-sided, and let me tell you, it hasn't been easy. At best I found a handful of metas like yours that at least convinced me I wasn't crazy for verging on being angry after this episode - and, really, no tv show should make one feel like that

[ginzai]

Hey, thanks for your thoughts and welcome back! :)

Yeah, the vast swell of cooing approval kind of disturbed me. I get that a lot of people are more invested in Sam'n'Dean than they are in either Sam OR Dean and others are looking for practically any excuse they can find to let Sam off the hook for what he did in S4, but to not recognize how extremely OOC both of them were and how much of a step backwards this was was a definite D: moment for me. For what it's worth, on TWOP, the reviews almost universally panned the ep for the first 13 pages or so (at least before the mods came in and did a mass deletion

[ann_tara]

...and others are looking for practically any excuse they can find to let Sam off the hook for what he did in S4, but to not recognize how extremely OOC both of them were and how much of a step backwards this was was a definite D: moment for me. For what it's worth, on TWOP, the reviews almost universally panned the ep for the first 13 pages or so (at least before the mods came in and did a mass deletion).Yeah, you know, it's been a long time since I really participated at TWoP, and I don't at all understand the mass-deletion thing just because of the high negativity of opinion. Isn't that what the damn site is for - to talk about if you loved or hated an episode? What the hell? And there is no rhyme or reason to the deletions. There are folks on there repeating themselves a million times whose posts are left untouched - and other posts with nothing inflammatory in them at all are dumped. Are the mods on meds or what

[ginzai]

Apparently the deletions were because people were talking about Sam and Dean's relationship. Which, given the nature of the episode, I've got to ask how they could NOT talk about Sam and Dean's relationship.

Heh. It sort of amuses me because I've seen people argue that Dean has been TOO nice, so much so that it reaches the point of him mothering Sam too much and stifling him with love. Both Sam and Dean have had moments where they're affectionate and moments where they're utter jackasses, so people can pick and choose when framing their arguments. Claiming that Dean has never shown Sam affection though or allowed Sam to drive his car is a bit much.

And Sam has made gestures of affection towards Dean! It's just, ah. Been a while. Unfortunately. He put up with an awful lot at the beginning of S3, at any rate.

. I just really want him to actually open his mouth and stand up for himself with Sam, which I don't think he's done yet because, for Dean, he's always got to worry about the bigger picture, and the fact that Sam - let